On Mar 2, 10:58=A0am, bob <nabo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 2, 9:13=3DA0am, Cheesehead <dplotusno...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 9:50=3D3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> > I guess I considered this a quality mid-range turntable rather than an
> > inexpensive unit. =3DA0It's not like it's a BSR or BIC.
>
> It's the next step up from the all-plastic $100 model with the fixed
> cartridge that tracks at 4g. Probably equivalent to the so-called
> entry-level turntables from Rega, Pro-Ject, Music Hall, etc.
>
> > By the output level being "too low" I mean that it (a) mismatches
> > other components and therefore (b) does not allow a good CD burn on my
> > Philips CD unit.
>
> But what does (a) mean, exactly? When you switch in the equalization
> and connect it to a line input on your receiver/amp, can you not get
> the volume level you want? Or is it just that you have to turn the
> volume up higher than you do for other source components? If the
> latter, that's normal.
>
> As for (b), I presume your connection is:
>
> turntable=3D3D>receiver/amp=3D3D>CD recorder
>
> ...and that you're connecting to the recorder through a Tape Out jack.
> Does your receiver/amp also have a preamp out? If so, try using that
> instead. That way, you can turn the volume up.
>
> Otherwise, you might try either a phono preamp with higher gain, or a
> booster, as Arny suggested.
>
> bob

Perhaps I misjudged the group understanding of "high-end" and should
have given more consideration to it as the highest end of audio
equipment discussions.
Over the past 30 years I've had a variety of quality components, but
only one amplifier from the highet end of the spectrum, a Mac 60.
My last speaker purchase was a pair of Wharfedale W90D speakers.
Certainly not "high end" like some Dahlquists or others of that sort,
but still quite nice, enough
that I could note the amplifier (a mere Sony) as the weak link in the
system. My current listening pleasure has been an old favorite LP
form 75: Parchment Shamblejam.

But enough of the apologetic.

My system is hooked up as you noted.
The amp unfortunately has no preamp out.
I just finished looking at the referenced pre-amps.
One of those would fit the bill quite nicely.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:52:42 -0800, bob wrote
(in article <(E-Mail Removed)>):

> On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire <audio_emp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is wh=
> at
>> kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a moving-magn=
> et
>> type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input bec=
> ause
>> these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
>> so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape player=
> s,
>> etc.
>
> Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his turntable. It has a built-in
> switchable phono stage, so he does NOT necessarily have to use the
> phono input in his receiver. He gets a hum when he uses the receiver's
> phono stage, but not when he uses the table's stage. But he's
> complaining about low volume using the table's stage.
>
> bob
>

Yes, you are right, I'm not familiar with this turntable. But if it contains
it's own phono-stage and using a high-level input on his receiver/amp results
in insufficient gain, then adding another phono stage isn't going to solve
his problem (likely the phono-stage in the turntable already has RIAA EQ
applied) and, in all probability, his main problem is most likely that the
turntable's built-in phono-stage is faulty. The next problem is how to patch
around that faulty stage so that he can use the phono stage built into his
receiver/amplifier instead.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:54:36 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
(in article <(E-Mail Removed)>):

> On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire <audio_emp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 06:13:26 -0800, Cheesehead wrote
>> (in article <7v4ko6Flc...@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 1, 9:50=3DA0pm, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>>> "Cheesehead" <dplotusno...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)
>>
>>>>> When I use it in equalized mode there is no hum. =3DA0But the
>>>>> output level is too low.
>
>
> [ Please trim your quotes. Excessive quotation snipped. -- dsr ]
>
>
>>> And thanks for the link. =A0Perhaps a quality pre-amp is all I really
>>> need..
>>
>> It's possible, BUT, unless you happen to have a low-output moving-coil, i=
> t's
>> probably NOT your problem. With most MM or Variable Reluctance cartridges=
> ,
>> the built-in phono stage in your receiver or amplifier should be more tha=
> n
>> sufficient. If you get plenty of output from your cartridge and sufficien=
> t
>> gain from your phono stage to give you decent volume at normal volume con=
> trol
>> settings, then the problem you have is a grounding issue and most likely =
> a
>> new phono stage would hum just as badly as the one you have now. In most
>> situations, you MUST have a grounding wire that goes from the tone-arm
>> mounting base itself to the grounding lug (usually that's a finger-screw)
>> located near the phono inputs on the back of your receiver/amplifier. Tha=
> t's
>> likely the problem with your hum. But really, I need more info before I c=
> an
>> say anything for sure.
>
> It is a MM cartridge. It is the stock unit that came with the table.
> Nothing special, but adequate.
>
> I actually picked it up unused, at a local thrift shop for an amazing
> $20.
> It replaced my Dual 505-2. Though they seemed to have similar
> performance,
> the Denon fit my location better even though the Dual's wood was much
> more attractive.
> I realize it's not a Linn or similar grade, but is still much better
> than the BICs
> that I had in the 80s.
>
> But I wonder if the equalization does not include the amplification
> that I assume it ought.

Of course it does. If it has its own built-in phono stage (someone just told
me what this particular rig actually is. I had never heard of it before), it
was designed to plug into high-level inputs on a receiver or amplifier. Since
those NEVER have RIAA EQ built in, the phono-stage in the turntable would
HAVE to contain it.

> (Or ate least ought at least by *my estimation*, anyway.)
> In that case the problem can be resolved easily with a pre-amp, as
> bob, et al, have noted.
> But that still leaves the hum issue, though it now appears avoidable.

The problem would seem to me to be one of how to eliminate the built-in phono
stage and break out a pair of phono cables (plus a ground wire) from the
bottom of the tone arm for connection to a an outboard phono stage (or the
phono input on your receiver/amplifier). If you are knowledgeable about such
things and handy with a soldering iron, you should be able to do it though.

If you feel that you still want a new outboard phono-stage, you can't beat
the Audio Technica AT-PEQ3 from David Raskin's Needle Doctor for $43. It is
really excellent.

"Audio Empire" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:52:42 -0800, bob wrote
> (in article <(E-Mail Removed)>):
>
>> On Mar 2, 4:20=A0pm, Audio Empire <audio_emp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What we really need to know about before anyone can be of much help is
>>> wh=
>> at
>>> kind (brand and model) of phono cartridge you have. If it's a
>>> moving-magn=
>> et
>>> type (MM) (or moving-iron) type, then you need to use the phono input
>>> bec=
>> ause
>>> these cartridges are purposely rather low output compared to the other,
>>> so-called, "line-level" inputs designed for CD decks, tuners, tape
>>> player=
>> s,
>>> etc.
>>
>> Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his turntable. It has a built-in
>> switchable phono stage, so he does NOT necessarily have to use the
>> phono input in his receiver. He gets a hum when he uses the receiver's
>> phono stage, but not when he uses the table's stage. But he's
>> complaining about low volume using the table's stage.
>>
>> bob
>>
>
> Yes, you are right, I'm not familiar with this turntable. But if it
> contains
> it's own phono-stage and using a high-level input on his receiver/amp
> results
> in insufficient gain, then adding another phono stage isn't going to solve
> his problem (likely the phono-stage in the turntable already has RIAA EQ
> applied) and, in all probability, his main problem is most likely that
> the
> turntable's built-in phono-stage is faulty. The next problem is how to
> patch
> around that faulty stage so that he can use the phono stage built into his
> receiver/amplifier instead.

It may not be faulty....it is probably designed to input a computer sound
card...which in general use signals lower than traditional line level.
Doesn't change his problem, though.