a little proac info.

Proac are a little mean on what they divulge, so I thought I would share a little of my hard earned knowledge, and give a kind of database of proac info for fans and curios
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for some great proac klones check this out.

http://audioclone.free.fr/scanspeak.html

Older proacs are divided into 3 ranges,

1/the tablette
2/studio
3/ response

tablette 3, 50, 2000 inc. signatures use seas woofers and seas or scanspeak tweeters...2010 on signatures.

studio 1, 100, 200 use scanspeak 8543 paper woofers and seas tweeters
studio 125 are like the tablette 2000, and use seas woofer
studio 150 use seas p14 woofers, and scanspeak 2008 tweeter.

response 1s use seas t14 woofer, scanspeak 2010 tweeter,
reponse 2.5, well you know!!
reponse 3 and 3.5 both scanspeak polypropylene woofers, scanspeak 9000 series tweeters
response 3.8 uses 2x 8535 woofers, 9300 tweeter
response 5 2x8535, atc mid, 2010 tweeter
response 4 atc 9 inch short voice coil woofers, atc mid, scanspeak tweeter.

You see a lot of the drive units are similar, the favourites are seas woofers, usually the plastic polyproylene cone: t14, p14 or p17....in the seas woofers, the letter is the cone material, t for TPX a kind of plastic, p for polypropylene, L for aluminium, and the number is the diameter in cm,

and the tweeters usually scanspeak 2008 or 2010 tweeters, and there is really little distinction between the ranges, the tablette are the small ones, some studios are uprated tablettes:
the studio 150 is like the tablette 50, studio 125 is like the tablette 2000.

Studio 200 are the same as the studio 1 or 100 just another drive unit and bigger cabinet.

response d15 is like the tablette 2000 signature: same drive units, bigger cabinet.

response 2.5 is like the studio 125 only different drivers which is the floorstander version of the tablette 2000

Proac seem to favour a d'appolito configuration which is used on studio 150, 200, response 3, 3.5, and the latest responses.

crossovers: the standard proac crossover is 2nd order in the bass, 3 order in the tweeter, with one attenuation resistor as the first component in the tweeter. No L-pads here.

They are in phase, but the components are the opposite way around, ie in the negative path rather than the positive.

With the 2.5, the bass is 3rd order,a change for proac with a 47 ohm resistor across the first inductor.

The 3.8 crossover is 2nd order on the bass unit, at 300 hz, and the rest I think is identical to the 2.5 ie 3rd order midbass, 3rd order tweeter.

With the scanspeak woofers, no resonant filter is used, but with seas, a series RLC circuit in that order R, then iron core L, then C is used, ACROSS the woofer. The bass signal first passes through the series inductor, THEN comes the RLC, then the parallel capacitor...check this out for a typical proac crossover:

http://audioclone.free.fr/responseONEsc.html

The cabinets are lined with bitumen and acoustic foam, terminals are michell rhodium plate.

with the crosovers, the FINESt components refers to air coiled inductors, solen capacitors, and ceramic resistors. Pretty standard, and some standard multilstrand cable, a la qed or bandridge.

latest response d100 uses Volt 2500 woofers, atc mids.
tablette R8 uses vifa premium line 14 woofer, and premium line tweeter.

series RLC on the seas woofers comes after the bass inductor but before the parallel capacitor.

Values are typically: 4.7 ohms for the tweeter resistor, 5uf cap, choke, 6.8uf cap

woofer: choke, 10 ohm resistor, choke, 20-40uf cap in parallel with woofer, 5uf cap parallel with woofer.


that's about it, good luck....

 

Thanks for that Data.

if i decide to upgrade the inductors in my 1SCs, I now know what values to get

 

Interesting and highly informative.

You did fail to mention the Future series however, somewhat disappointing as the open baffle design is ripe for DIY wannabees.

What the post neglects to mention, is that the drivers mentioned only form the basis of those used in many Proac designs. I have a pair of Seas Excel W1/CY002 mid woofers at home, as used to good effect in the R1.5, D15 and Future 2. Except they are not W1/CY002's - they have a smaller voice coil than the "off the shelf" offering to give greater delicacy in the midrange at the cost of power handling.

So Cloners beware. All may not be as it appears

 

Perfectly correct merlin.

The 2010 tweeter is not a standard item either. I believe ProAc do something with the ferrofluid.

 

Yep Robbo, you will find that there is less damping used in the Proac units, great result I must say

Can I have my CD player back

 

Oh Mike

I said if you were going to end up regretting selling it then you should hang on to it! It is rather special I must admit. I am sure that a man of your hifi sourcing abilities will soon be able to find something else to fill the void

 

I have Robbo

Sadly, those little silver discs don't play on it and I've got a lot of them

I'm going to borrow a CD3 this week so will report back.

 

You mean a CDS3? That will be an interesting comparison with the eclipse. Having heard both (admittedly in different systems) I know what my money is on

 

I heard a pair of those futures once. I dont know which ones they were.. anyone got a link?.. they were massive, about 6 feet tall.

What amazed me about them was the power they needed to work. We needed a (genuine) 250w class A amp to get them to wake up :O

They didnt sound all that hot, but it was a crap demo room... anyone else heard Proac futures?

 

Chris,

I think the futures are being quietly dropped from the range as they were not Proacs best performers. I think driver integration was not that good. (a very difficult thing to do with ribbon tweeters)

 

Good grief no Robbo, CDS3 is not on the agenda I've heard it as well and for me, the Eclipse betters it at a third of the price (unless of course you own a Naim setup)

No I mean the Audio Research CD3

 

Oh, I see

Is it the one Kingsley is trying to flog?

 

I always felt ProAc could make a pretty nice little speaker, but their big ones were always overblown in the bass. I had a pair of Tablette 50 Sigs a good few years ago and a friend had a pair or Response 1SC, both are decent little speakers. The bigger ones seem to be a different story, whenever I have heard the Response 2.5s or larger ProAcs the bass has been all over the shop.

Tony.

 

must say, the response 3s were very tight and fast, studio 150 too, but a small speaker really...2x 4.5 inch drivers.

My bro has the tab 50 sigs...notmy cup of tea...bit small sounding...slightly thin. Response 1s much better.

Suprised about the futures, very innovative, different, should have been good. I think the price put people off £6k and £10k+

 

It's funny Tony, the Future series sounded quite different, with tremendously tight, clean bass, allied to an electrostatic type mid and treble. The bass in particular was something of a departure for Proac.

But they didn't sell, whereas the R2.5 and 3.8, along with the 4 & 5 continued to ship worldwide and receive aclaim.

I guess it just goes to show how personal speaker selection really is. One thing to note is that the 3.8 in particular has a bass peak that may well coincide with a second harmonic room mode in many British living rooms, large rooms are a must with the 3.8 and above.

 

3.8s have a monster bass peak of about 10dbs. What is the fundamental? about 50 hz?

 

Studio 125 rating?

I understand that listening is a personal thing, but I would be interested in others' views of the ProAc Studio 125s.

When I was looking for a £1000ish pair of floorstanders around a year ago I listened to B&W CM4s and thought they were fine until I heard the Studio 125s which were in a different league. I now have these paired up with my mainly Arcam kit (+Rega P3 t/t).

For reasons of aesthetics and domestic harmony which will bring a tut-tut from the hifi purists no doubt, I have to position these only six inches or so from a wall and they are bunged as they have no shortage of my bass IMHO. They show great detail and seem to go well with the Arcam kit. The recently acquired Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables have made a much greater leap (over QED Silver Ann) than I might have hoped for - excellent clarity and balance across the spectrum.

I'd be interested to hear any other opinions of these speakers, in case I am missing out on some amazing listening experience which simply demands an audition. My kit is not as "hi" fi as much of the stuff you guys, I'm not familiar with all of the terminology used to describe what I/others hear, and I'm a seriously happy bunny with my present gear. But am always keen to learn! And I won't let others' opinions of "you shouldn't in theory be enjoying your set-up as much as you are" spoil my life....

Over to those more knowledgeable in ProAcs then....

 

Flash,

The nice thing about proac speakers is that they are quite forgiving of partnering equipment and it is relatively easy to get them making sweet music. They will also grow with the rest of your system as you upgrade source components etc. and are be at home with very esoteric kit as well. They are speakers to keep hold of and enjoy for a long time

 

The CC2 uses Scanspeak 18W8543 woofers + 9700 tweeter and I think first order xover out of phase...

Also read this about the 2.5:

The Stereophile magazine technical assessment indicates the tweeter and woofer are out of phase with each other and it is suggested that you experiment by reversing the polarity of the tweeter on the Hong Kong crossover circuit and see which balance you prefer.