Amplifier musings

I like my Arcam FMJ A22 integrated a lot and it has surprised some people with its performance but I'm starting to think about possibly upgrading it - but we're talking not until around end of Feb next year. Unlike with my digital source upgrade I will take the time to audition any potential change

I may not upgrade at all - I still need to be convinced that the money I would be spending would give me a worthwhile improvement over the Arcam.

First of all, there are two things I absolutely must have in an integrated or pre:
1) remote control
2) a unity gain input so that I can use my stereo amp as a "power" amp for the front speakers of my AV system.

I've always been a big fan of integrateds and the extreme paucity of pre-amps below the £5K mark (particularly with the features I want) isn't helping to change that opinion!

So, the 3 integrateds that are on my mental shortlist are:
SimAudio i-5 (£2500)
BelCanto eVo2i (about £3000 I think)
Krell KAV400xi (£2700)

These are all pretty bl**dy expensive - actually quite a bit more than I would like to spend. Only the SimAudio seems likely to be available s/h in any numbers in Europe and of the other two it's going to be almost impossible to audition a BelCanto The BelCanto and the Krell both however have the advantage of balanced inputs which I could use with my DAC64 to (apparently) great sonic benefit.

There doesn't seem to be much on the integrated front in between my Arcam (around £1100 when new) and that lot above and in any case, I think it would take a jump to a £2.5-£3K integrated to make a worthwhile improvement on the Arcam.

Valve amps I've pretty much discarded because they either won't have enough power to deal with my inefficient Dynaudios and/or they are unlikely to have the remote control and unity gain features I must have, or if they do, they'll be way beyond my budget. If I'm wrong about that I'd welcome to be corrected. I don't have anything against valves!

Now, something that upset my thinking a little bit was perusing the LC Audio website and seeing their DIY/kit amplifiers. I'm particularly intrigued by their "ZAP Pulse 2.1" digital (PWM) amplifier module (http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/zp2.htm) which it would seem would allow construction of a pretty awesome power amp for not a huge amount of money (£6-800 depending on case and ancillaries). Of course if I built one of those then I'd have a power amp and no pre-amp. One option would be to continue to use my Arcam merely as a pre-amp but I wonder if that would really work that well. Even without the demands of the output stages on the PSU, the Arcam probably won't be a pre-amp to match a decent power amp.

So just today I find out that Arcam are bringing out a new pre-amp, the C30 for just £1200 - combined with the LC Audio digital power amp that would still be only £2K, significantly less than the cheapest integrated on my shortlist. Question is - how good is the Arcam C30 likely to be? I'll have to try it and see

As I mentioned earlier in the post, there are very few reasonably priced pre-amps so going pre/power is probably out of the question if the Arcam C30 (or indeed my existing Arcam) don't cut it as a pre-amp.

I could still satisfy my DIY urge and build a 3ch. LC Audio "ZAP Pulse" amp to power the centre and surround channels of my AV setup :MILD:

Sorry about the long post - comments and suggestions welcomed

Michael.

 

Micheal,

IMHO, if you want to get the best our of both the DAC 64 and the dynaudios, you really ought to consider getting something better than Arcam. Arcam is good up to a point, but I think your other kit is crying out for more.

I would go along with your shortlist, (not sure about the Krell though) but also would implore you to take a listen to valves and in particular the ARC VSi55. This one has plenty of power, sounds great and also has remote control. not sure about unity gain. I think you will be shocked at what a quality valve amp will do to your system, it will raise it to an entirely different level, and let your other components really sing.

I will think about some more options and add them later.

Robbo

 

The zappulse is just one of the digital amplifier chipset evaluation boards by the looks of it. Profusion (www.profusionplc.com) will sell you similar for the Tripath (class T) modules.

That's pretty much all that the veritas class T amp was.... an evaluation module on the end of a BIG power supply.

Building a DIY preamp with remote control and a unity gain input is no big deal. PM me for details on that if you're interested.

 

said it before, but look for a mf a1001 integrated...250w 8 ohms, 400 into 4, , high class A bias, remote control, preout, power in, lovely build, I found it polite sounding but you may differ. around £1k s/h. dual mono inside, active preamp.

 

michael,
all the new naim range has both remote control and unity gain for a/v integration a nac 202 / nap 150 or 200 would be about the level you're looking at. ok that out of the way (as i doubt you'll like the 'naim sound' if you like arcam's but give it a listen in better circumstances than heathrow you never know).
if you like arcam why get rid? arcam amps are designed to be bi-amped and there are definate advantages to this aproach although you'll need two runs of decent speaker wire and some extra interconnects.
what is it you particularly like about your arcams - i know tones did a soundstage to die for. if this is what you like then maybe a modified valve amp would be a better idea i'm sure a unity gain stage could be designed and added to a valve amp for not much money.
from what i remember when tone went to the bel-canto the presentation was very different from his arcams - more powerful and 'thwacky' but at the expense of the arcams massive soundstage.
cheers

julian

 

You'd expect his from me of course but go to the Moon!

I'd get the P5 preamp, balanced in/out, fully balanced circuitry, theatre throughput etc etc...

Then add the W3 and your upgrading will be over! Oh is it worth mentioning that Dynaudio use Sim at all shows across the pond and yesterday we had the same rig making great music with some Confidence 5's?

the difference between the Pre/Power and the I-5 integrated is not subtle BTW

 

Michealab,

If you get a chance, you really ought to hear merlins set up before it gets broken up. I know you will love it!

 

Next time I'm in London I will try to hear both your setup (Robbo) and merlins but unfortunately my time over there is always so busy

merlin - the SimAudio pre/power combo is way out of my league price wise, each component alone costs significantly more than the i-5 integrated which is already stretching my budget!

DIY pre-amp, hmmm interesting idea but given that the pre-amp is (apparently) so fundamental to the sound of a system then I'm not so sure that taking the DIY route there is so wise...

As to what sound I'm looking for? I don't know really I'm merely thinking of an upgrade because, as Robbo says, the Arcam is probably not doing the rest of the system justice anymore. I like its sound but could do with something a bit more dynamic. If that comes at the expense of a bit of soundstage that doesn't bother me at all.

I will give a Naim combo a try if I can get a home dem. Trouble is the only Naim dealer here in Lisbon is so stuck up the tip of his nose touches is forehead I went in there once to buy a set of ICs (VDH D102MkIII) and he asked me about my system - when I said I had a Tag DAC20 and, shock horror!, an Arcam integrated his attitude was almost "well what makes you think you have any right to be in this hallowed place of audio excellence?" :bub: The name of the shop is "Attitude" - more apt than they were perhaps intending

As for the ARC VSi55 and the MF A1001 - no unity gain input or anything that can simulate it (AFAIK). I hate to harp on about it and I know it's closing a lot of doors for me but it really is a must have feature. I did the old set the volume control to 12 o'clock piddling about with my previous amp and it's just not a viable option, for me.

Edited to add: re the MF A1001, if it sounded "polite" then it definitely isn't my cup of tea

Michael.

 

That unity gain thing is a bit of a bugger, isn't it? Narrows your choices alarmingly, I'd be tempted to work around it if at all possible.

Linn preamps are cheap secondhand and seem to have more features than most (I don't know about unity gain, however). Or maybe Meridian? You can pick up 501's cheap, but you'd have to check the specs to see if it'll do what you want.

Don't rule out Naim preamps, they're pretty good IME, and certainly lots of features. Plenty of secondhand availability as well. You'd have to add a separate PSU if you weren't using a Naim power amp, of course, which may not make it terribly cost effective.

I wouldn't get sucked into thinking you have to spend a shedload on a pre, btw - my experience suggests a good pre can be had for not vast amounts of money. How do people with AV setups work around not having a unity gain option?

-- Ian

 

s/h Accuphase integrated. Not a new one, as they are too expensive and depreciate like it's going out of fashion.

 

The biggest mistake most of the forum members make is to choose upgrades by price rather than sound quality. Far better to listen to things at a variety of price points, note the product that really does it for you, and if you can't aford it, then start saving.

The price first route will lead to endless so called upgrades and eternal dissatisfaction IMO.

So listen to something at say £4K/£5K (what I paid s/h for the Sims). If you really do find that these units provide the kind of upgrade that you want long term, them why not start saving instead of throwing money at some hopelessly flawed halfway house that you listen to knowing that you want something better!

 

Bah Jap crap How are the Harbeths Joel?

 

ian,
i can understand michael having unity gain down as a must. my old nait 5 had a unity gain setting for the av input however my 82 doesn't and i definately miss it. i've aproached things from the other direction. instead of having to turn the preamps volume up i've attenuated the other channels internally by about 20db (there is a setting to do this on the e800) this gives them the same sort of volume level as the 82 at normal listening volumes so only a little tweaking is necessary and i greatly reduce the risk of embedding a speaker driver in the opposite wall....

michael,
it's a shame that the naim dealer closest you is a bit ignorant. i've had similar problems and it's damn inconvenient (although now seemingly solved). it may still be worthwhile asking though as with a credit card imprint they're not taking any risk. if you still don;t get joy it may be worth talking to naim directly and explaining the situation, they do have a very good customer service record, plus the dealer is meant to install it to your satisfaction or give a full refund.
cheers


julian

 

Michael - and a power amp isn't? The unity gain part can simply be a piece of wire, switched into the output. The rest complexity depends on your choice, but it can be as simple as a passive stage with a motorised stepped attenuator and relay switched inputs.... Then the logic/remote is powered, but the audio stage is ultimately very simple (of course, you'd need an external phono stage if you use a gramophone). I would personally say that the power amp gives more of the system sound, and a passive circuit should be essentially characterless... (of course, we don't live in an ideal world so it won't be, but...)

 

Isaac - OK them a DIY pre-amp sounds like someting worth considering. If it were simple enough I could probbaly integrate it into the same case as the ZAPPulse units and have a DIY integrated - they sell a "kit" with a passive volume control already (single input of course).

What I need is an input for the DAC64, one other volume controlled input (currently for the TV) and the unity gain input for AV passthrough.

Are you just making this up as you go along (I don't mean that in a bad way) or are there kits in existence? I still reckon that a pre-amp has far more influence on the sound that the power amp

Julian - you've reminded me of another downside of my local Naim dealer...they don't accept credit cards Only cheque or debit card (or cash of course). Oddly enough that seems to be quite common the higher up the scale you go

merlin - your reasoning has some merit but if you take it to its extreme then I'd listen to a £30K (or more system) and be saving for the rest of my life! I've got to draw the line somewhere and now I'm extremely happy with the Dynaudios and the DAC64 and just need an amp at about that level at which point I will be sorted for a good long time. If I suddenly had a £7K amp I'd be wanting to upgrade the rest to match and then it really would be never ending.

Michael.

 

The most common work around is to find a volume level which approaches unity gain (usually around 12 o'clock - which is conveniently easy to 'find' each time) and then whenever you want to use the AV system just choose the AV input and set the volume right.

I wouldn't really have too much of a problem with that but there's something of a gotcha in that approach depending on what remote volume commands your amp understands. With my old Arcam Alpha 6+ it just so happened to understand the same remote volume commands as my Marantz AV processor so I could set the volume nicely at 12 o'clock but then when I was changing the AV volume on the Marantz the Arcam volume knob would move aswell - cocking the whole thing up What I had to do get around that was block off the remote receiver on the Arcam when I was using the AV system which was a real PITA. After all those fun and games you can understand why I really, really want unity gain (my current Arcam has it).

WM got around it by the fact that his BelCanto power has balanced and single ended inputs which are switchable. He use balanced for stereo and single-ended for AV - just required flicking a switch at the back. However, I also need to bear in mind that I'm away from home a lot and my wife needs to be able to use the system without needing to piddle about with fixing volume controls, flicking rear panel switches or swapping cables about

Why more amps don't have a unity gain input is a mystery to me. It hardly adds complexity and in this day and age when many people also have AV systems it's rapidly becoming an essential feature IMO. If Naim can have it on all their pre-amps (and on the Nait 5) then everyone else should be able to aswell.

Michael.

 

michael- I am making it up as I go along to a point, but I'm considering this for the amp I'm going to build. all it takes is a relay for each input, the stepped attenuator and some logic to drive it/interface with remote (which is easy enough, I can supply).

 

Hi Merlin,
Glad you like the Accuphase sound
I don't have an awful lot to say about the Harbeths to be honest. They work while most other speakers sound broken by comparison.
I have heard no better tools for listening to recorded music. Any music.
I've been rediscovering my rap, hiphop and reggae albums over the past couple of months, as well as electronica from the past 30 years in addition to my usual diet of, ah, Mongolian throat singing and 3-hour Chinese erdhu solo improvisations, I've been hoovering up classic Blue Note hard bop albums from the 50s and 60s - the stuff Chuck Berry said "they play too damn fast", some great Flamenco sides from the 60s and 70s, and quite a few Blues and R n' B albums. Then there's Brazilian batucada and choro as well as quality time spent rediscovering early 80s Congolese latin-funk and more classical music.

 

I've discovered that Primare make a nice pre, the PRE30 which has balanced inputs and outputs, remote control and a unity gain/AV bypass mode. Costs around £1200 aswell which is nice Anyone know much about it? Looks gorgeous aswell

Fortunately the local Primare dealer is just down the road...

Michael.

 

Mike, for you worth an audition, though you should really listen to merlins system, before Robbo snaps it up forget the 64, get an Eclipse