Amps that sound good at low volumes...

how sensitive are your speakers?

I'm following this with some interest. Like you, I get plenty of resolution from the DaxDecade (and if you haven't got Black Gates yet, do it), especially with the Ncoded signal from my transport. I've recently bought (Shrinkl's) EPOS ES22s floorstanders (6 ohmns, 87db) which are driven bridged at the moment but I'm trying out some bi-amp experiments (they can be tri-amp'd as it happens).

I also like quiet listening on occasions. Have you tried the Monarchy SM-70s?

 

merlin,
i would like one of those however they are far too expensive for what they are and i'd prefer the 'nl' version which is even more expensive.

ditton,
they are i believe 90db/w/m or there abouts. the crossovers are pretty simple things with about 3 components per driver for a 3 way speaker. also they are big which means they have to work less to move a similar amount of air.
no black gates at the moment but i may do this in the future. to be honest it's sounding so good now i may jsut give up and just listen to music from now on. things seem to have gelled with chord odyssey 2 for the treble rather than isolda. which is good as i can flog the isolda for more....
cheers


julian.

 

good plan, but know that

a) the addition of black gates is recommended by Nic, Gary and myself (and Alanbeeb as listener)

b) Gary was warning that there may be a future shortage of black gates.

The only downside was loss of use of the Dax Decade whilst the BGs were fitted and whilst they burnt in, but after that a step up.

but back to that amp stuff, any references for the Vincents. I'll have a google ...

 

to be honest references are very thin on the ground and mostly in german. you may want to have a search for shengya spt 100's as well as that is their oem designation. iirc cattylink have them and the matching pre up for sale for about 700 usd? which is a mad bargain if they aren;t tweaked to become 'vincents' however you'll pay for shipping. import and won;t be able to demo them. the pair i have are ex demo and won;t be leaving my house unless their big solid state brother or a bat vk220 beat them. sounds of music / metropolis and their distributors have them but they want 1150 for a pair which is a bit steep considering their oem price.
cheers


julian

 

found this:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/504.html

with onward link to
http://www.shengya-audio.com/en/index.htm

all of which says 'Chinese', but this
http://www.vincent.authentic.cz/discr.htm
suggests its (being imported? into the) Czech Republic!

my Czech is not good enough even to decipher prices ...

 

all I can say is that if you'd put another brand on the front - say musical fidelity for example, they would be on the shop floors for 2,000-2,500 - and very reasonably priced.

Their build quality,sound, looks all says 2k+

The fact they are half that, or quarter that oem, is just very very silly.

I think in fact they would be the best monoblocks/power amp I've heard at their price.

Nice one julian, its sounding even better than ever.

 

i'm going to give the vincent 993 a go as it is also class a (to 60w instead of 10) but don't use valves (which may be their downfall).
as it stands i'd be happy top chop the 250 in for the spt-100's and leave it at that but if the 993 can offer more for an extra 100 quid then i'll take it - but i doubt it.
cheers


julian.

 

Fekin' Krell....

picked this Behemoth up from s.o.m. this morning....



not as 'right' out of the box as the spt's but certainly it can headbang. the power meters on the front are cool - i got them over 100 (watts) for about 2 seconds with shpongle before i bottled it. normal listening level is about 1!

on first impressions the spt's have it but the 993 is improving as it warms up and the bass is truly immense....
cheers


julian

 

the 993 runs bloody hot - it's heating my living room all by itself. no way i could leave it on 24/7 - must be eating electricity :yikes:
cheers


julian

 

It looks the bizniz - very nice. How does it fare for speaker humm? Or during very quite sections of music? Also, how much is the 993 going for?

questions questions questions.

 

Oops, just checked £1595.

I noticed the black version in the exdem section £895 which is posted as a 993 but looks like a 991 to me.


I wonder what the 991 mono blocks sound like?

 

OKey Dokey, after a little looksee I found this link..

chinese stuff + prices + links

In which you will find these prices:

KORSUN:
V8i $1,038.00
V6i $688.00
u2 $298.00
KS99 $338.00

AURUM CANTUS:
LEISURE 2 (ORIGINAL OEM VERSION) $428.00
LEISURE 2 (new model) (LUXURY VERSION MK II) $458.00
MUSIC GODDESS $1,238.00
MUSIC GODDESS II $1,313.00
MOON RIVER $1,183.00
MOON RIVER MINI $748.00
MOON GODDESS $828.00
MR-C MK II $398.00
LEISURE 2 SPEAKER STAND $123.00
G2 RIBBON TWEETER $258.00
G3 RIBBON TWEETER $458.00

SHENGYA (VINCENT):
SA-T1 + 2 x SP-T100 $858.00
2 x SP-T100 $598.00
SA-33 + SP-333 $488.00
A10 $358.00
CD-S3 $458.00
CD-S6 (CD-831) $598.00
CD-S10 (CD-731) $358.00
SA-91 + 2 x SP-991 (NEW SA-91) $1,498.00


SA-91 $543.00
2 x SP-991 $1078.00
SA-93 + SP-993 $1,288.00


SA-93 $623.00
SP-993 $898.00
SP-996 $248.00
SV233 $398.00
SV238 $1,022.00

SAVC1 + SAVP200 $2,068.00

SAVC1 $813.00
SAVP200 $1338.00
SDV-1 DVD PLAYER $218.00
SDV-2 DVD PLAYER $233.00

CAYIN-SPARK:
MT-12 $448.00
MT-35 $568.00
TA-30 $498.00
D1205.1A $443.00
CDT-15A (CDT-16A) $558.00
CD-15A $433.00
170 + 270P $923.00
A-88T $1,078.00
SC-6L PRE-AMPLIFIER $998.00
SC-10 PRE-AMPLIFIER $2,258.00
688R $1,798.00
734A $718.00
743D $873.00
765A $878.00
550 $1,333.00
860 MONO BLOCKS $1,776.00
9084D $2,248.00
9085D $3,858.00
HA-1 (HEADPHONE AMP) $348.00
HA-2 (HEADPHONE AMP) $343.00
220Ci (SOLID STATE AMP) $363.00
265Ai (SOLID STATE AMP) $688.00

OPERA-CONSONANCE:
CD REF 2.3 (2.2) METALLIC TOP $998.00
CD 120 $563.00
M99 plus $498.00
M100 plus $698.00
M100S plus $898.00
2 x M400 $768.00
2 x M800SE NEW VERSION $1,100.00
REFERENCE 1.1 PRE-AMPLIFIER $1,366.00
REFERENCE 1.2 PRE-AMPLIFIER $2,033.00
REFERENCE 5.0 $1,033.00
REFERENCE 5.5 $1,338.00
REFERENCE 6.6 $833.00
REFERENCE 8.8 $938.00
REFERENCE 9.9 $2,433.00
T99 PRE-AMPLIFIER $298.00
T1 SE PRE-AMPLIFIER $728.00
CYBER 10 $533.00
CYBER 20 $388.00
CYBER 30 $498.00
CYBER 40 MM/MC $833.00
CYBER 50 LINE STAGE $698.00
CYBER 211 $2,698.00
CYBER 500 $1,338.00
CYBER 813 $2,698.00
CYBER 845 $2,698.00
PM 1 MM ONLY $368.00
PM 2 MM/MC $673.00


MEIXING (MING DA):
MC67-HA PRE-AMP WITH MM/MC $598.00
MC-7R $498.00
MC34-A $508.00
MC34-B $398.00
MC84-A $378.00
MC300-A $858.00
MC3008-AB $918.00
MC368-B $623.00
MC805-A $1,163.00
MC805-AA $758.00
MC845-AA $758.00
MC300B-845A $3,493.00

XINDAK:
SCD-1 $628.00
SCD-2 $738.00
DAC-3 $328.00
A200B $658.00
XA6800MKII $498.00
XA6900SE $798.00
XA3200S MKII TUBE PRE-AMPLIFIER $518.00
XA8600 POWER AMPLIFIER $523.00
DAMPERS VT-1 3 PCS PER SET $88.00
DAMPERS VT-2 3 PCS PER SET $78.00
DAMPERS VT-3 3 PCS PER SET $58.00
DAMPERS VT-4 3 PCS PER SET $48.00
DAMPERS VT-5 3 PCS PER SET $38.00
SILVER FUSE 2A $5.00
SILVER FUSE 6A $7.50
FS-GOLD $768.00
FA-GOLD $318.00
FP-GOLD $188.00
SS-1 JUMPER (4 UNITS PER SET) $58.00 PER SET
OTHER CABLES PLEASE REFER TO OUR WEBSITE
XA500 POWER PLANT $78.00
XA1000 POWER PLANT $118.00

SHANLING:
T100C NEW UPGRADED MODEL $1,188.00
SP-80 TUBE PWR AMP MONO BLOCKS $1,533.00
STP-80 TUBE AMPLIFIER $1,298.00
SCD-S200 $628.00
SCD-T200C $1668.00
CD-S100 $228.00
A10T TUBE HDCD PLAYER $398.00
A24 $658.00
SLM-A40 MKII $668.00

JOLIDA:
JD202S $558.00
JD302B $798.00
JD502B $938.00
JD801 $998.00
JD100 $498.00
JD300B $978.00
JD1501RC $498.00

JUNGSON:
MOON BAY CD PLAYER $348.00
JA-66A $228.00
JA-88C $278.00
JA-1 / JA-99C STANDARD VERSION $668.00
JA-1 / JA-99C DELUXE VERSION $938.00
JA-88D $1,068.00
JA-2 / JA-50 $3,180.00
JA-2 / JA-100 $4,538.00
JA-10 / JA-200 $11,868.00
JA-2 PRE-AMPLIFIER $1,098.00
JA-10 PRE-AMPLIFIER $2,808.00

CLASSIC:
6.6 INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER $798.00
6.8 INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER $428.00
6.10 INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER $388.00
9.0 TUBE PRE-AMPLIFIER $448.00
8.0 POWER AMPLIFIER $378.00

ESOUND:
CD-E3 $388.00
CD-E5 deleted item
CD-E5 export edition $528.00
S8A AMPLIFIER $378.00

ORIGINAL:
A6S $338.00
A8S $368.00
2008SE $598.00
A9.8 (da vinci) $698.00

V.A.L.:
VP-110S $448.00
VP-120S $523.00
MP-L1S MKII $358.00
VP-845 $1038.00
MP-211A MONO BLOCKS $1398.00
MP-30B MONO BLCOKS $1798.00
VP-300BD $1038.00

OTHER PRODUCTS:
HO'S LS3/5a SPEAKER $498.00
ELITE WM2 MKII SPEAKER (PIANO PAINT) $1133.00
BADA LB3000 POWER PLANT $63.00
BADA LP-2 TUBE BUFFER $128.00
JUNGSON POWER CABLE $49.00
BADA POWER CABLE $49.00
JUNGSON SPEAKER CABLE $78.00


Now thats what I call cheap!

 

the 993 i have is supposed to be the one up for £895 but the picture on the website is as you say of the 991 - which are 2k a pair.
speaker hum is non existant (on either vincent) even though i got some burbling with the 250. however the 993 has a ground lift switch.
as it 'warmed up' it got a lot sweeter with very couth treble however midrange doesn;t (yet?) have the magic of the spt's and bass is very 'big'. control is fantastic and they have this sense that they have the speakers completely by the balls. i'm noticing bass lines and details that i didn;t with the 250 (not tried the track with the spt's though). however bass is quite 'wooby' if you know what i mean - i suspect that a speaker reposition is in order. one area the vincents score over the spt's is soundstage and image. deep and wide are understatements - the spt's struggled with throwing much of an image at all.
low volume listening is ok but it misses out on the magic of the spt's (if my audio memory doesn't fail me). dynamic swings and silences are fantastic - they remind me of tony's bel canto from a few tweaks back although without the 'thwack' as they are a little slow in the bass.
for the price (even at 1.5k) they are a superb bargain if utter control is your bag - the thing is at present they are a bit of a 1 trick pony although that trick is somethign the spt's don;t do, which makes things interesting.
to be completely bonkers i'm going to try bi-amping tomorrow but the cost to go that route would be prohibitive - not to mention space constraints.
i'll give the 993 a few more days and then re-try the spt's - with a bit of speaker moving about jsut to see if i can coax an image out of them.
cheers


julian.

 

As usual Julian - interesting stuff, useful and nicely presented. Cheers Greg.

 

well the 993 seems to be burning in nicely. it's gained a bit of body an texture to things and a quick back to back with some astral projection on both amps revealed the spt's to be a bit soggy compared to the 993 but the soundstage wasn;t as dismal as i remembered. that said the spt's are lumpy from switch on needing at least 1/2 an hour to come on song. still they do have that fantastic mid range that shines through even straight after switch on.
over all i'd be happy with either amp.
the spt's are probably slightly more flattering to poorly recorded / compressed music with a midrange that is lush whilst keeping enough oomph to do bass and treble well but not spectacularly.
the 993 is almost the oposite. it will eviscerate a poor / compressed recording but throw it a modest / good one and it will shine. it does a hugely deep soundstage with a lot of ambience and detail retrieval. bass is taut and deep (almost too deep) and treble is clean and clear. midrange is adequate at present but slowly improving. tellingly though i'm still listening to music when i could be slumped in front of the boob tube.

i'd love to own both amps but would be happy with either. as for making a choice - well thank goodness i've another week or two to make my mind up as i've no idea at all at present. if pushed i'd go with the spt's as they sound nicer at low volumes and are cheaper but... but... but....

thankfully bi-amping the two won;t work as they have different input sensitivities otherwise my credit card may have snapped with the strain.

i'm off to listen some more.....

oh yes i must put the 250 back in to see how it sounds again.
cheers


julian.

 

So, Julian, what have you chosen?

 

well, the spt's are back on again and the 993's been off for 2 days. the 250 is 2 weeks cold. i'm going to give the 993 another go next week - honest i am but to be perfectly honest i'm 85% sure it'll be the spt's. they don;t throw the biggest soundstage or have refined smooth highs like the 993 but there is something magical about the mid and midbass that is addictive.
still need to put the 250 back in but then again.....
cheers


julian.

 

... well that's decided then!

 

we'll see
once i know for sure i'll post a winner.

 

Come on, you must have made your mind up by now...