Another cable spin-off: termination

Types of cable aside, I would like to hear (or rather read) members opinions of different methods/makes of cable terminations and whether it's worth spending the extra wedge on expensive terminations to an interconnect or speaker cable. DIY or not DIY? I can see that a physical connection between cable, plug and device needs to be sound, but what else is important/relevant?

For instance; I have some Ecosse CS2.3 speaker cable that I picked up 2nd hand very cheaply and have gathering dust in a cupboard. Stoneaudio charge £3.85 per metre unterminated or £51 for a terminated 2m pair for CS2.3. This means that for the 2m pair the terminations cost about £35 and the cable only about £16. Clearly there is a lot of emphasis (cost-wise) on termination, but is this because dealers expect customers not to want to terminate cables themselves, or is it the cost of plugs, or is it the time taken to attach the plugs etc...?

 

What else is important? Long term reliability. Or you retighten screws, trim back old bare copper to clean wire etc regularly.

Many terminations - eg phono + jack plugs, are a fiddly pain to solder.
Unless a cable is varnish or ptfe insulated, you will probably damage some insulation when soldering, and the heat will add to copper oxidation. I would like to see more ultrasonic welding, like Dimarzio use, in commercial cables. Otherwise they are just as kak as homemade ones.

 

You're paying for their time attaching the plugs imo.

 

btw, Custom Cable Co. are better value, their online shop has been down for a while but you can call them.

 

Termination does make a difference! Best for loudspeaker cables is bare wire, but you have to keep the end clean by stripping them again every year or so. If you fiddle with cables a lot, I find banana plugs second best (especially the z-plug type).

For RCA cables, the Eichmann Bullet and WBT NextGen DO make a difference to the sound, but at a price...

 

I'm into cables .......here is my two pence worth.

Plugs make a difference.....the best I've found are silver bullets, verygood are the cheap Neutriks, good are the WBT like RCA's I'm currently using, ok at best any from Maplin, poor most carried by RS [except those mentioned above].

As to the level they play....the best will add 20% onto the performance and the worst will knock off 20%. The £1 Neutrics are about performance neutral IMO, and at the price it is hard to beat.

Solder .......people swear by it but I've used all sorts and to be honest I've not noticed a difference one way or the other. I'm currently usiong 4% silver content or so it says on the label, it goes on fine but don't make a mistake as its a pig to rework. It also eats Iron bits.

 

Fair enough, so basically if you avoid the cheap and nasty and go for the respectable and generally recommended you should be alright. That makes sense and has been my assumption up until now tbh. Clearly the apparently exaggerated cost of factory terminated cable must be largely down to their expertise and the time taken by the manufacturers in doing it.

Good stuff, I am reassured and will continue bodging my home made connections together as best as I can whilst buying prudently and avoiding tat.

 

Hi,

First, I have been doing cable DIY as long as all else. I learned about sonic differences in cables the hard way a long time ago as well (I'd be very happy if cables made no difference).

The cables I arrived at in the end and for my own use are DIY, use industrial silver wire (various sources and not that expensive) and most crucially, they have no termination except for the XLR cables (speaker cables and RCA's are bare silver wire, goldplated in interconnects). For XLR's use the cheapest Switchcraft or Cliff plastic shell connectors.

I use stripped down "low loss aerial coaxial" cable, only the insulation and for speaker cables the solid core 1mm copper consuctor.

For interconnect look here:

Zero Connector DIY Silver/Gold Interconnect

For speaker cables think the same principle, 5 0.6mm silver wires fed through the five air chambers commoned with the copper wire. Due to the copper wire in the center I tend to "seal" the connection end thinly with leadfree silverbearing solder.

You can see a speaker cable assembly poke up on this picture from building an amplifier:



One such assembly is one "leg" of the wire, so take two (or four for bi-wire) twist tightly. Done. Never compared it to top of the range (monofil = Valkyry = financial ruin) Nordost or other extreme cost cables, but at fairly sensible money and fairly little time it takes to assemble it performs very well for a "nothing but the signal" cable.

So, DIY your cables, make them from good material and following fairly sound principles and save terminations if you can. Then retire from the cable game.

Ciao T

 

Ok, so disposing of terminations is good where possible, that also makes sense. My speaker cables are terminated at one end by banana plugs (at the amp); I shall remove them to see if I can tell any difference.

All my cables are made of the same stuff; some silver plated copper core stuff I bought off ebay a while ago. Allegedly the cable was originally intended for military aircraft cockpit wiring - it looks like solid silver but apparently it does have a copper core. It's very thin.

I used it to make some interconnects, using nakamichi plugs also bought off ebay, and the improvement over the £20 interconnects I previously used from Richer sounds or similar, can't remember the make) was impressive. So, I bought a load more of this cable and used it for speaker cable also - again a decent step up over the QED copper stuff I was using previously.

My question about termination was posed as I was considering re-terminating my interconnects because I didn't do a very good job when I made them.

P.S. will check out your cable recipes, I have some time on my hands at the mo so may give them a try.

 

Hi,

Simple litmus for suitability of termination removal. If oxides of the base (or plate) metal are semiconductors, terminations are essential for long term stability (eg. for bare copper). If the oxides are mererly insulators or better just poor conductors (tin, silver) then terminations can be omited IF the metal surface when making the termination is free from oxidisation (for silver use commercial silver cleaner if needed) and ideally you use some contact preservation fluid (I find low viscosity silicon oil a good choice) to seal the conductor surface from oxidisation.

I hope this helps.

Ciao T

 

Yes it does - thank you.

I've generally avoided connectors on speaker cables because I can't really believe it improves anything

 

Connections on speaker cables are a definate backward step...but nessesary for fragile solid core, or continual swapping. Both of which I'm doing at present. The best connectors for speaker cable I've found are those light weight ones from RS and similar that have a platic clamp fitting [that went straight into the bin] RS number 531-447

 

Ah, 'Z-plugs'.... The best there are...

 

Hi,

That's what I use for my commercial products.

Ciao T

 

Do you solder them?

 

Hi,

With the type of cable we use (80 conductor Teflon(R) insulated solidcore silverplated copper ribbon cable) we have to. I'd prefer a coldweld, but not feasible.

Ciao T

 

Sounds exactly like an 80-core IDE cable? Can you categorically deny this 3d?

 

Hi,

Standard IDE Cable uses tinplated stranded conductors and grey pvc insulation.

So our cable with solid core silverplated copper and clear FEP insulation does not sound like 80 Core IDE Cable, as it is electrically different from that stuff.

It also does not cost the same (ask the factory, if in fact you can find one that will be willing to make you some to that spec).

Rest assured you cannot just buy the cable off the roll at Maplin or RS Components.

Deny what?

Are you going to ask me for a DB Test to proove there is an audible difference?

I'm not providing one. These cables are part of a "system" philosophy. I have no interrest in people buying these cables, save in the context of a whole system of 3D Sonics / Real HiFi equipment (for example we offer a special tri-wire harness specially designed and tailored to the Hyperion Speakers) and then only if they do not already own something they are happy with.

While owning 3D Sonics gear is not a requirement to own them, we do not advertise them at all, do not promote them to dealers or people in genera, submit to magazine reviews etc. They are available, that's all.

And before you go crusading on cost, please sit down, separate and strip 320 individual wires, combine them neatly into leadouts that remain flexible, apply heatshrink and all that. Then count your time. I charge mine at £ 50 an hour. For any less I might as well stay in bed, given tax and all. Website prices are dealer retail and include dealers margins on top of my own time and materials.

BTW you can better these cables SLIGHTY if you follow the instructions I provided elsewhere in this thread.

Ciao T

 

Are your 3D Sonics systems supplied with an adequate quantity of little sticky dots?

 

That statement is postively Zen in its obliqueness.