Border Patrol SE300B first impressions

Having joined the BP club on Thursday courtesy of Bottleneck, I thought I'd jot down my impressions based on a couple of days worth of listening.

For context, the rest of my system is Roksan Xerxes/RB600/Frog Gold; an aged Arcam Alpha CD player/Chord DAC64; Groove phono amp; Vibe pre-amp; Castle Chester speakers and Veodyne sub. The BP replaced my Exposure 18 power amp, now re-united with the Exposure 21 preamp in the upstairs system.

As Bottleneck had suggested, the BP (9 watts per channel) actually sounds louder than the Exposure 18 (60 watts per channel). It clearly has no problems driving the Chesters, which I thought might be an issue. The BP also fits on the bottom shelf of my equipment rack, which is just as well as this is one heavy (read back-breaking) amp and I don't fancy the idea of moving it. I had a minor panic when I thought the spare mains lead I had wouldn't reach the socket, but swapping leads between bits of equipment sorted that.

Listening to CDs via the BP is a revelation. The sound opens up dramatically, with much more detail; eg the backing vocals on Joni Mitchell's 'Carey' separate into several individual parts, rather than just sounding like an indistinct blur. This additional detail doesn't rob the sound of dynamics either; 'Come All Ye' from Fairport Convention's 'Liege and Lief' drives along unstoppably and is stirring stuff, but now I can hear all the different instruments located in space as Sandy Denny lists them. Anyone who thinks that all valve amps sound warm or soft should listen to the BP, as neither of these two adjectives spring to mind.

With vinyl the difference is less dramatic; it was excellent before and is excellent still, but for whatever reason there is not the step-up in quality I had been expecting, given the improvement in the sound from CD.

As Sunday was an unexpectedly nice day, we went out for a ten-mile stomp across country, so my plans for listening to different (ie classical music) have been deferred, but a quick listen to a couple of short Chopin piano pieces was encouraging.

Of course, there are very few unmixed blessings in this world, and this is no exception. The increase in subjective sound level means I can only increase the volume on the Vibe a few notches before the sound becomes too loud for me; I tend to listen at low-ish levels especially in the evenings. I'm also beginning to wonder, for the first time in about 10 years, whether the Chesters are 'good enough' for the rest of the system.

But these are early days. I have yet to try out such things as the 8ohm versus the 4ohm taps, and alternatives to the Exposure speaker cable I'm currently using. There's also the option of powering the BPs via the Velodyne sub rather than directly from the Vibe ...

On the whole then, first impressions are very positive.

 

Excellent!

Im really pleased you're getting on with it well.

For the things that Border Patrols do well - propulsiveness, clarity, dynamics, - I dont think theres a better valve amp out there.

Pleased to here it can drive the castles properly, I suspected it would be fine, but its good to hear that its a good match.

 

My experience with valves is so far very positive. The only downsides of the BP: I almost broke my back getting it on the shelf, and Mrs H is extremely dubious about 'those lightbulb things' (she was actually complimentary about the sound!)

I'm thinking about your suggestion re Living Voice speakers, but will leave that until my bank account recovers from recent purchases. Do you or other BP users have any thoughts re speaker cables? I've used Exposure cable for many years and have no idea what, if any, alternatives might be better.

 

Hi Joe!

Im in may ways the 'wrong' person to ask about cables.

After trying a few, I now use 'Canare' studio grade speaker cable.

For my personal use, I've dismissed audiophile cables (both interconnect and speaker) as an expensive passive tone control.

Its a very contentious subject - and has had pages and pages of posts before on zerogain..

There are just as many people who have the opposite opinion, and believe that cables are a key element in a system, and getting them right is vital.

Gary at Border Patrol is quite helpful, and might advise you on the cables he suggests. He is a salesman out to make profit like any other however, so I wouldnt bet that he would say 'use what you already have, or get some studio cable' as I've done!

Living Voice speakers are great, and a fab match for Border Patrol amps. You'll see Gary actually sells and reccomends them himself. Border Patrol & Living Voice is a combination that you used to see in almost every hifi show that I can remember.

Auditoriums go second hand for about £800, Avatars used are about £1500, Avatar OBX/OBX-R are about £2000-£2200 used.

I used to have Avatars. I'd reccomend some second hand Auditoriums - wouldnt be much more than what you'd get for your castles?

NB
I think all living voices need to be well into the room (because they are rear ported and sound better that way) so if you have a 12ft x 12ft living room, then they wouldnt be the best choice.

 

I will probably give Gary a call; at the very least he will know which speaker cable he used in developing/testing the BP which is as good a place as any to start from. In any case Exposure cable is AFAIK mainstream multi-stranded gubbins so it shouldn't be doing anything seriously untoward to the sound.

 

Congrats on your new amp, Joe.

I love BPs though need the power of the push-pulls or parallels.

Enjoy.

 

my tip is to get some hitachi lc-ofc from farnell, this was originally the cable that Kevin at definitive allegedly bought a mile of and had to sell off cheaper. It was used I think in the early lv speakers but I am not sure what they have changed too.
its an excellent cable
there isn't any such thing as a hifi cable or studio cable really(perhaps toughness in covering), just as there isn't anything you do to circuitry to make it a hifi amp or a studio amp.
they are all just amps. and quite similar in design, so cables are wire that is weaved.
cables and some russ andrews stuff imnsho are the biggest con trick to take suckers in on audio.
I pity those who spend 100s

 

Kevin was using the Hitachi cables when I was demoing up at his place. The Kondos were being used and mind you the sound was simply out of this world. So I would be surprised the cable was an issue in that £££££ set-up.

JJ

 

I use the Hitachi LC OFC interconnect in preference to one costing £1K! It just seems to have more life and flows naturally.

 

I too have recently gone to the valve side (quad II40's) and am also v happy. I would have liked to go 300b se but like Steve needed more power to drive my low secitivity speakers.

 

Joe

Congratulations on the 300B, a lovely amp.

I use the Hitachi cable as discussed above with my BP P21 and OBXs and it's fine, about £5 per metre. Kevin at Definitive could sell it to you. I suspect there are gains to be made by using something "better" but I'm not convinced it's be worth the cash. I'd just buy more records.

What kind of valve did you go for ??.

Paul

 

The Hitachi cable sounds like the one to go for. It's mercifully cheap, too.

I bought the amp, valves and all, from Bottleneck. I'm not sure what make the valves are, but I think they're of East European origin. Obviously I'll need to find out when they need replacing!

 

I forgot to add that last night I tried out the BP on some classical music (Schubert string quartets to be precise). If anything, the improvement is even more dramatic than it had been on rock/pop. There is more texture to the sound, so the distinctive tonal qualities of the different instruments are much clearer.

I also tried the 8ohm thingy (technical term) and it does seem to allow slightly finer increases in volume compared to the 4ohm thingy, but possibly at the expense of top-end detail.

 

The TJ mesh are chinese but are generally well thought of (I'm sure Chris wouldn't have put any old rubbish in anyway )

I've tried a number of different 300b in my Audions but the biggest difference in sound was swapping the 6922 and the 5687 tubes, so don't get too hung up on the flavour of the 300Bs !

 

Coincidentally I recently read a glowing (!) review of Western Electrics 300B valves in an old issue of HiFi Plus. £400 a piece if memory serves. I think not.

 

You could try 300Bs from Emission Labs as well. I've no experience of them myself but again highly rated amongst the 300B community.

www.jacmusic.com

JJ

 

Hi

The 300B's are TJ Mesh plates.

Details here: http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_tj_tubes.htm

In the UK they're about £130 each.

One of the best 300B's shy of a western electric.

I'd wait until they're on their way out if I were you Joe. That could be anything from a year to maybe 2 or 3 years.

 

I've just scored a pair of WE s off ebay at £330 ish Unfortunately with my Audions I need 2 pairs Mind you, I'm half way there.

 

Badchamp,

you can order WE 300B's from the States for $500 per matched pair.

 

OK, thanks. I'm sure you told me this when you handed the amp over, but will it be obvious when the valves need replacing? Do they conk out completely, or just sound gradually worse?