But nothing for Kyoto.

That dosn't surprise me one bit, he dosn't care one bit about the Kyoto agreement, America is in a world of its own and does not need it. Bush's attitude towards environmental issues makes me sick. I think the rest of the world need to start punishing the USA if they keep producing the amount of C02 it does.
 
Let's see whether this is worth discussing further.

There seem to be a very common myth among certain hifi community one should never turn off your hifi 24 hours day in day out. I never really convince with the need to do this as my toys sound just as good within a few minutes of power up and a few hours later. Therefore, if we really are that convince by our desire to help a wee for the environment we could start by turning off the toys at least overnight when not in use. What else could you think of that we could do as responsible green audiophile?
 
Wolfgang is absolutely right.

Calculations have been made to show that switching off TVs and other appliances rather than leaving them in 'sleep mode' can save millions of mega watts of power.

I don't have any links to provide off hand but there are on the net.
 
From the moment George W Bush was elected the first time, he walked away from his international obligations, tearing up international treaties like the Kyoto Protocol and ABM treaty. They, however imperfect, have helped bring peace and environmental protection. The least we can say is that he has embarked on a dangerous journey.

Why? The answer is corporate payback. This has been the defining trait of President Bush's administration. His election was a straightforward capitalist venture for the energy corporations. Oil, Gas, Coal and Nuclear companies are the power behind Bush. Together, they donated more than $500 million dollars to put him in the White House.

As soon as he was elected, it was payback time and Bush declared the Kyoto Protocol on reducing carbon-dioxide emissions dead and buried. The message was, ââ'¬Å"US corporations have the right to pollute the entire planet. The people and the environment don't matterââ'¬Â.

Function of a democratic government is to protect people, it's citizens, and the citizens of the world. In capitalist countries it is the Government's job to keep commercialism in check and protect people from the inequality, oppression and money-orientated practices of big business. Can the Bush Govt still be considered to be working for interests of people in the US or the world, or is it indeed simply the world's largest corporation?
 
I always turn my HIFI off at night.

Little things can also help like not driving Citreon 2CVs. Sooner or later the world will run out of oil and it will be the USA who suffer the most. Other countries like the UK have already got lots of semi solutions the USA don't seem to have any kind of renewable energy programmes at all.
 
the thing that galls me is that my taxes are being spent on trying to secure the last remaining soakings under the once brimming barrel of oil instead of being spent on researching alternative energy solutions and implimenting the infrastructure to support them. yes there are some half hearted efforts towards wind farms and tidal power and some loud thrashing about over 'efficient cars and road licenses' but it's all smoke and mirrors. we need a sustainable source of energy that can totally replace oil or our way of life is kaput.
cheers


julian
 
Yep the thing is this will probably happen in our generation too, people like my parents who are in their late 40's early 50's don't seem to think it will affect them. But I was told in a 1996 geography lesson that there was 35 years of crude oil left. The problem with modern cars is they do reduce emissions a lot but they still use the same amount of petrol they always have done.

Hopefully these new hydro engines will solve the problem and each house could have their own hydro generators. However I think this is just plain fantesy. A building in Manchester called the CIS is going to have solar panels fitted on its service tower.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/News/NewsEUPR187.htm

This kind of thing is a start but dosn;t really go far enough. All new buildings should generation 10% of its total energy needs or somthing. There is a 650ft tower block being planned for Salford which will be one of the tallest buildings in Europe, this will have its own wind and solar panels if the building gets planning permsion.
 
julian2002 said:
the thing that galls me is that my taxes are being spent on trying to secure the last remaining soakings under the once brimming barrel of oil instead of being spent on researching alternative energy solutions and implimenting the infrastructure to support them. yes there are some half hearted efforts towards wind farms and tidal power and some loud thrashing about over 'efficient cars and road licenses' but it's all smoke and mirrors. we need a sustainable source of energy that can totally replace oil or our way of life is kaput.
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Julian,

I have never agreed with you more.

I think that it's disgraceful that so little has been done and, what is more, I don't understand it. Surely, if the oil companies invest in alternative energy sources they can 'own' the results. What stops them?

Is there any future in the wave/tidal approach? Couldn't the government encourage research in this area. I wouldn't mind at all if we could once more say that Britannia rules the waves (cue: Elgar). :rolleyes:

I have a strong faith in human innovation as a means of solving this issue but not if we leave things too late. Our species is procrastinating on a massive scale.
 
BlueMax From the moment George W Bush was elected the first time, he walked away from his international obligations, tearing up international treaties like the Kyoto Protocol and ABM treaty. They, however imperfect, have helped bring peace and environmental protection. The least we can say is that he has embarked on a dangerous journey.
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This I think illustrates the point that prehaps the US and a goodly portion of the rest of the world seem to be on diverging paths for so many of the big or hard problems, questions and decissions that face us today and in the near future. You can I feel try to solve things via the established world fora such as the WTO, UN, WHO, International Court and others or you can try to solve things on your own. Now you may well solve things on your own but the process of going it alone often alienates others - this may not be a good path to follow.

It is often better to be inside the tent pissing out rather than be outside of the tent and pissing in unless you are what the French call a hyper power and then you can piss on whoever you like whenever you like.

One law for the rich, one law for the poor and no laws for the hyper power?
 
But I was told in a 1996 geography lesson that there was 35 years of crude oil left.
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I was told exactly the same in 1976. So it must be true then.

Kyoto is a complete waste of time and money. The CO2 in the atmosphere rose faster last year than ever before. And it didn't come from us or the US.

Paul
 
steve,
wave / tidal power is great but has a few drawbacks iirc you need a certain type of estuary which is quite rare (the severn / bristol channel being one of very few in the uk) off shore windfarms are a better bet but are still very expensive to build / maintain.
i'm praying to the consciousness of the universe that the conspiracy theorists are correct and there are a multitude of perpetual motion, fusion and zero point energy devices that have been bought and supressed by big oil. at least then there will be an alternative but unfortunately i think not.
i'm only slightly toungue in cheek when i say i've switched to diesel so i can run my car on vegetable oil come the oil crash. mostly it's due to less co2 emissions and better fuel economy.
cheers


julian
 
the estimates for traditionally drilled oil may be correct however additional offshore sources have been found also shale oil processing has become economical and new biological extraction techniques may extend the available resources however they are finite and i suspect we will see shortages that make anything we've so far seen, seem mere inconvieniences.
cheers


julian.
 
The CO2 in the atmosphere rose faster last year than ever before. And it didn't come from us or the US.
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Paul is correct, the co2 did rise and the move from under developed to developing countries status by the likes of China, India, Indonesia, Russia and the rump of the USSR. Some (not Russia) of these countries view Kyoto as a tool of oppression wielded by the haves against the have nots as a means of stunting their economic growth and baring their entry to the top table of trading nations. Russia I believe was able to make deals to get favourable trade terms with selected countries if they threw their weight behind Kyoto.

The USA views the Kyoto rules as not applying to them for the very reason that no country can tell the USA what to do when it comes to internal economic matters.
 
Kyoto wouldn't have got signed even if Kerry had won,the President doesn't have the power to sign it without the upper house,who would never vote for it anyway
 
Dick Cheney when he was chairman of Haliburton Oil admitted, "There will be an average of 2% annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead, along with, conservatively, a 3% natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need in the order of an additional 50 million barrels a day. This is equivalent to more than six Saudi Arabias of today's size."

Dr Colin Campbell said in his report, The World Oil Supply 1930-2050, ââ'¬Å"There is only so much crude oil in the world, and the industry has found about 90% of it.ââ'¬Â

Professor Goldman of the California Institute of Technology summed it up when he said, ââ'¬Å"Better to believe in the tooth fairy than in future supply of new sources of oil. Most of the planet has been explored extensively, and even if some new fields are found, they won't delay the peak by more than a few years.ââ'¬Â

Looks as if they know about the shortages. Their solution, as it is becoming clearer, is to grab it all up for themselves.

US is opportunistic in its realtionships with other countries and being thir 'ally' is no guarantee for us. There has always been anti British sentiments in the US and they will flare it up as and when it suits them.
 
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BlueMax,

I realize that you are a little quiet and self-contained with your views but, reading between the lines, am I correct in assuming that you're not too fond of our American cousins?
 
7_V said:
BlueMax, I realize that you are a little quiet and self-contained with your views but, reading between the lines, am I correct in assuming that you're not too fond of our American cousins?
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You got it wrong their 7_V.

I have nothing against American people. I have been there over a dozen times on business and leisure. I have relatives and friends there.

I will give you one example. I own a Honda Pacific Coast (PC800) motorcycle made for the US market that I personally imported from Safford, AZ. I have long been a member of an internet group for these rare bikes. It was a long-term dream of mine to ride a Pacific Coast on the Pacific Coast Hiway. One of my American friends made this dream come true by letting me ride his bike on Pacific Coast hiway.

No! That is not the issue here. American people are being driven on the same disastrous path as Germans were by the Nazi regime.

But I must admit that my posts in some forums have attracted american reaponses based on similar interpretations such as yours. Anti-american, Communist, un-patriotic, terrorist, etc. Makes one wonder!

I am sure you good self and 'penance' are able to make posts that are ON TOPIC and don't find the need to making personal remarks. :cool:
 
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