Come one, come all!

hmmm.. Deja Vu ??

Looking very familiar.. has a kind of warm cosy feel about it.. let's hope it stays that way.

As for moderation.. in case anyone didn't see them on GH .. here are my thoughts...

All opinions, view points etc will be tolerated with the exception of the following:


1) Personal insults, persistant harrasment of an individual, disputes of a personal nature and or Flaming in general.
2) Racist, Sexist statements etc
3) Any statements that may breach the Laws of the UK or any other country that may, (but not neccesarily), cause legal action to be taken against the forum, forum users or moderators etc.

Any breach will lead to a public warning on the thread concerned and possibly a PM. As well as one (or more) of the following:

1) Editing or Deletion of the post/thread concerned.
2) Locking of the thread.
3) Suspension/banning from the forum.

Although another forum that I visit occasionaly has this to say on the subject, (I've modified it to suit the name/subject matter of this forum):

"GUIDELINES FOR POSTING OF TOPICS AND REPLIES
ZeroGain has established itself as a discussion forum where quality of service, content and support is intended to be superior.

The membership base is international and participants come from all walks of life. The members' common interest is Music and Hi-fi and allied interests.

We communicate across continents, cultures and reference bases and this calls for some degree of discretion in how and what we post in the various forums. Because of their very nature, some forums will attract devoted interest and this allows for a greater freedom of content and manner of speech. Other forums attract far more general interest and hence the topics and the manner of participation ought to be considerate of the broader membership.

ZeroGain endorses free speech but will not tolerate comments that are intended to criticise or condemn any person or party on the grounds of gender, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation and political beliefs. This requires of all members to communicate in a polite and respectful manner. Differences of opinions are of course tolerated but even then there is no need to be abusive, to condemn or to flame.

ZeroGain reserves the right to delete or edit posts that will bring its own name in disrepute. Crudity, vulgarity, blasphemy, bias and any other form of expression that could give offence to the general membership will be dealt with in the same manner.

ZeroGain will maintain the high quality of posting. Members are requested to refrain from posting an undue amount of banter in order to respect the high-class level of atmosphere on the board. Whilst it is necessary as part of discussions to disagree and argue with other members, flaming, rude and impolite replies will not be tolerated. If a member continues to post in such negative way, there membership will be terminated."


The atmosphere on the forum that this was taken from is very cordial. Of course there is the occasional disagreement.. but flames are rare and are edited out by one of the moderators with a comment along the lines that it is not acceptable.


GTM

 

..

Totally agree

 

My signature does not appear to want to work.

Not that it was going to be anything particularly profound anyway, but i feel all left out , particulalry when WM seems to change his on an hourly basis, just to rub salt into the wound.

cheers

EDITED TO ADD - hmmm now its decided to work.

 

gtm,
i'm not sure i agree with the following

one of the great things that gh did well was engender a sense of community through tolerance of a certain amount of off topic 'banter'. i feel that if a thread's main topic has been answered but people are still conversing about subjects that have been thrown up by the origional subject then it would be rude to interrupt them.

one of the most enjoyable threads on gh was the recent cycling thread in the chat area. this went totallyoff topic and there were numerous arguments and counter arguments batted back and forth. the thing was that on both sides there was understanding and a willingness to see things from the others point of view, unfortunately there is no way of MAKING this happen it depends on the people discussing.

if a person finds a post rude or inflamatory i feel things would be best served by the people involved sorting it out between them. if no satisfactory outcome is achieved then the mods should become involved.

swearing is a difficult one as to me it's water off a ducks back whereas to others it is very offensive. i am loath to cut out part of my vocabulary (an an expressive part at that) just because a few frail souls can;t take the use of a few anglo saxon adjectives and verbs however i would suggest that again this should be sorted out by the people concerned with the mods stepping in only when agreement can;t be reached.

gh was occasionally accused of being elitist and 'stuck up' i think if the banter aspect of the forum is stopped then this impression will be enforced.

cheers


julian

 

Are you guys ready for this, WM is going to agree with some one eee... Gadds, yes Julian is right, I know that some of the PM from various members,were getting a triffle 'Ticked off' that the thread was Not hifi, But remeber G/H wasn't just a hifi forum but a community of all sorts of people, so becareful not to turn it in to a Pnk fish nearly all TT stuff , some is ok, but be diverse, not rude just different. Tone

 

Julian/Tony

I have to agree with the banter part also.. but not to the extent of completely turning a thread off topic.. most of the time GH got it about right ..

Swearing?.. well personally I don't find it offensive .. but I don't much see the point of it either to be honest. I just think that people should be considerate about the fact that some people do find it offensive.. that would be my main objection to allowing it.


Personally I felt that GH had it about 80-90% right.. all that it lacked IHMO.. was effective (as in existant) amount of moderation to curtail some inappropriate behaviour.. ultimately I think this is what lead to it's downfall.. as once you give someone an inch they try and take a mile .. and that's when it all became too much. Nip it in the bud.. make it clear that it's not acceptable/wanted behaviour and it won't escalate to an unsurmountable level.

Above all .. all moderation should be transparent.. as in all actions taken by moderators should be publicly declared. By this I don't mean a detailed explanation of what was said to whom.. but just a note to state that it is "in-hand" or .. such and such language etc was deleted because it wasn't acceptable etc.

GTM

 

Julian:

I suggest people can go astray but in that case the thread should be subdivided and a new thread created.

I would really try hard not to use coarse expressions. It leads to a sense of «easiness' that soon develops into plain coarseness both of speech and manners.

You may think I'm terribly old fashioned, but I'd suggest we all behave like gentlemen. Is that such a difficult thing?

We come here to discuss hifi and music. Why are bad words necessary??

Suppose you allowed that kind of expressions in 'chat' but nowhere else?

There is an interesting parallel in a forum I often browse and very seldom post: Atlas F1 forum. The place is full of kids and is about useless if you try to keep an interesting conversation, except in The Nostalgia Forum where bad language is discouraged. There even is a place for bad language (The Paddock club - where I virtually never go, but seems very active).

So, suppose we divide things and have different criteria in different parts of this forum.

And more: I'm not a frail soul. If you knew me, you'd know. If it comes to that I can grab a fellow by his collar a hit really hard - I had boxing and Greco-roman lessons when I was a boy, and I raced real racing cars (and had a couple of nice and clean fights with other drivers). But I just find it more comfortable if everybody is normally polite.

Differences of opinion are welcome. Swearing, I think not.

 

The modding on G/H was lacking on occations, however this was due to Joel's natural Zen of leaving things alone, not all of us shared this but it was the way he felt about things and it was his place, but that is history, just make sure every one is aware of how you guys are going to do it. Tone

 

Ok.. here's another thought..

I would most certainly draw the line at personal insults.. whilst I would like to agree with Julian about letting people sort it out themselves in the hope that people will eventually act like adults about it. I think all that will result is "bad-feeling" between two members that will over spill in to every post made in responses between those two people. Deleting the offensive post before it's been read will at least hopefully prevent the situation becoming inflamed. The same goes for separate sections where "anything goes". IMHO..it's a case of once the damage is done it's too late to do anything about .. and you end up with two or more contributors acting like children and continuing their personal issues on every thread they post on. This isn't any fun for any of the other forum users and at worst actually leads to people taking sides and so falling out with each other when previously they had no problems.

GTM

 

'There is wisdom in your words'. I think you are right.

 

rds,
i take what you're saying on board however surely it's the substance of what is said that is important not th style in which it is presented.
for example tone may mangle his spelling and grammar sometimes but he has some bloody good insights and advice into areas of hi-fi and has helped many here and on gh get the best from their systems. just becuse his mind goes faster than his hands on the keyboard or he uses some 'bad' words doesn;t mean his opinions are faulty or should be censored or ignored.

i would say that swearing to emphasise a point or to contrast against some other comment (see my use of bloody above) is acceptable however if i were to direct the swearing at you personally then that WOULD be unacceptable.
to carry on the example: julian is a bloody idiot WOULD be rude and unacceptable except in extreme circumstances (although i wouldn;t really mind i'd just come back with a terribly witty and astute reposte).
this is why i say it's probably not a good idea to have a policy about swearing per-se but roll it into the personal abuse policy.

btw. if you felt i was impugning your manhood then i am sorry however isn;t greco roman wrestling where you grease up and writhe arround on the floor with another man << note the apropriate use of smilies to indicate a joke!
also road rage is nothing to be proud of

cheers


julian

 

gtm,
in those circumstances they'd pretty quickly use up their 3 strikes and get a mini ban to cool off in.
cheers

julian

 

Julian:

It all depends on the context. Suppose I'm trying to get a new CDP, and cannot find a model I like. If I'd say: I'm fed up with this bloody business, I think that is understandable. If I said: I've had enough of this fucking CDP business, I think that's coarse... It really is a matter of degree; and perhaps of opinion.

Yes, Greco-roman fighting implies rolling with the other fellow. But I prefer to roll in a different way with elegant ladies. But that's quite beside the point. Hifi has nothing to do with picking girls up - well, perhaps just a little...

Road racing is idiotic; really murderous. I meant racetrack racing... Well, that can be stupid too: you just go round and round - that's why I left, but at least you don't put people who don't want to be there in danger. I never had a serious accident, though, and I was pretty fast (excuse my vanity).

I didn't feel you were questioning my manhood. I just wanted to show you one can be virile and not coarse.

 

WARNING theres a hippy in the building
would it be possible to get joel to set up an automaic redirection type thingy once broomhandle shuts down?

 

rds,
yes one is course and one is not however the information content is the same. you are not happy with the cd player. phrased either way the question deserves a reply. although the latter may limit those willing to reply that is the posters perrogotive. you may choose to ignore it whereas i would answer if i could. if however you found the post personally offensive in some way you'd post a complaint to the thread if they guy appologises and rephrases the question then fine. if he ignores you then fair enough it's not a personal insult you'd just prefer no swearing. if he tells you to **** off then that is a personal insult and you have grounds for an official complaint to the mods.

to quote a popular song at the moment... girls don;t like boys, girls like cars and money.... what screams money more than a top hi-fi? it says i have disposable income enough to keep you in shoes for ever! or it screams horny geek-boy stay away... i'm not sure....

sorry language barrier problems. road rage is a when two drivers physically fight due to bad manners on the part of one or both.

i would have thought the ultimate expression of virility was having kids. anything else is window dressing.

cheers


julian

 

That's a good idea, Julian. GH aimed to be a forum run by its members, which is mostly why it mostly succeeded, for a time at least. I dislike moderation as much as Joel, but maybe some problems can be resolved quicker if a system is in place to regularly rotate moderators. However, if this is done, the moderation policy has to be clearly set out, otherwise arbitrary decisions will reign supreme (after all, everybody has different ideas about how to moderate, and we don't want the moderation style to veer crazily as different people take over the job).

Oh, and *no stand wars*. If that means no threads about racks at all, I could live with it. They're only furniture, after all... (Cue for a stand war.)

-- Ian

 

No worries! How could I forget about your upcoming (maybe) visit to dCS. Would have loved to have had the chance to come along.

 

Well that didn't take long Michael!

Well done on the swift response! Let's hope the success of GH can be carried on over here and perhaps even taken further. I've a bust few days so wont be around much.

Hope all goes well in the opening period!

If we can attract new mebers from the start they perhaps wont feel put off by the clique that was mentioned over on GH!

Spread the word early!

Obviously something went wrong over on GH and you may wish to tighten things up a bit. However, I think Joel had/has it right with his not too harsh MOderation policy. We should be able to MOderate ourselves! It's "only" hifi!!! A few guidelines from the start should be posted though as sugested.
But try not to be too harsh, let the people breathe!

Let's hope this place can grow beyong "just a hifi site" and into the (MOst of the time) friendly and fun place to be, community that GH was!

Cheers

MO

 

on the subject of going off topic in a thread .

we are all guilty of straying off topic and in the grand scheme of things , does it matter ?

some of the best threads i,ve read at GH or even hifi choice , have all wandered off topic .
how many weak threads have turned into good threads once someone has veered it of into another direction .
i always treat a thread like a think tank , it might have a lot of filling (read stupid suggestions -but i,m being polite )but it might just have a couple of gems as well .
so, i suggest no hard and fast rules in this dept. and just let the threads grow naturally

 

Wow! Such an amazing number of registrations and responses in such a short time. I'm chuffed

Just so you all know, current moderators are myself, Robbo, julian2002 and cookiemonster (L&P from GH). I'm pretty much in agreement with most of what's been suggested here re. moderation. Hopefully the myself and the "founder modertators" will be able to come up with a sensible "moderators charter" that's public so everyone knows about it. To start with I'm just playing it by ear

RdS - I didn't know you were also on Atlas F1 - I'm a member over there too (also michaelab) and have been posting a lot more recently allthough it is usually pretty childish, apart from the Nostalgia Forum. Nearly everything ends up being a Ferrari vs. McLaren (and the rest) argument As a general F1 site though it's got to be amongst the best and well worth the subscription (see - I'm going off topic already )

I think Joel is going to do a mailshot to all the GH members about this place and also put in a temporary redirect to here once it shuts down. Hopefully that will encourage more people to move over.

On the swearing issue, I don't personally have a problem with it but do usually find it unncessary. I currently haven't put in any "censorship" filters but may do soon. Afterall, if you say f**k everyone knows what you mean.

On going off topic, I don't think it's a big problem but it common sense should prevail. I think the Chat forum is pretty much open season but when a HiFi discussion ends up being a p*ssing contest about which car is better (I'm guilty of that ) then it's getting a bit silly.

It's been a hectic first few hours and I feel I haven't really put much into it yet - I haven't even posted on the "My Kit" thread or any of the usual stuff, just haven't had the time yet.

I hope to do things very openly, transparently and democratically here and I definitely don't want to go on any power trips or draconian moderation! I'm sure you'll all be the first to let me know if I'm going a bit Tony Blair on you

Michael.