Currently enjoying..............

Faure: In Paradisum

Delibes: Flower Duet from Lakme

because,they are,er,on a Classics Best Of cd

any other pieces of music similar to these? I will of course be buying the full versions,although that sometimes leaves me a bit disappointed,as the best bits on the best ofs are sometimes a couple of minutes long in a long piece

also,can someone tell me which is the best Clair de lune to buy?

ta

 

The Durufle Requiem isn't a million miles away from the Faure - try giving that a spin and see how you go.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you get a full recording of the Faure Requiem BTW - most of it's better than the rather saccharine In Paradisum IMO (notwithstanding the overexposure the start of the Agnus Dei has suffered as a result of being the Smooth Classics At Seven jingle ).

Make sure you get a first-rate recording though otherwise it'll sound really dreary - IME you really can't cut corners when it comes to buying choral recordings as so many are dreadful. John Eliot Gardiner is always reliable in that he's got one of the few choirs who actually sing in tune rather than a quarter-tone flat the whole way through, which makes an enormous difference.

 

cheers

I think thats a problem I am having,most of my classical stuff is in compilations,and when I buy specific cds I have no idea what/who has the best recording.

 

The armed man by Carl Davies, Poulenc Gloria.

 

Some people trying to break into classical music think that they won't be able to tell the difference between a good recording and a poor one - in truth you will, you might just register it as a good or a poor piece of music. Like I said, IME this particularly applies to choral recordings where the technical standards of singing are often pretty ropey.

 

When you are in HMV, try and look at the Penguin Guide to Classical CDs - most decent classical music shops will have a copy. Often the best recommended recording is one of the cheaper ones. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes, but it's generally a reliable starting point.

Agree with the comments about Faure Requiem - definitely get the whole thing and just enjoy those viola melodies!

As for the Delibes, not so sure what to suggest but I would go for some standard Puccini repetoire - I noticed the Il Tritico was on sale in HMV yesterday - 3 operas for the price of one! - and the melodies are fantastic.

Lastly, I woudl suggest listening to Radio 3 a bit more than Classic FM. For a start, you don't get the adverts, but you are more likely to hear the whole piece rather than just "the best bits" as defined by the "DJ". Not that I'm knocking Classic FM, I just think it can spoil some of those moments, especially when you take into account all the jingles etc.

 

Requiem
Another vote of the Faure, you will not be disappointed by the whole thing - every single bar could quite happily appear in a "best of" compilation. I also agree with the Durufle recommendation, a wonderful piece which really should be better known, although being a bit more reflective than the Faure may make it a bit less appropriate for sound-biting - the "Pie Jesu" is every bit as beautiful as that from the Faure. Durufle was inspired by Gregorian chant, and all the melodies are the appropriate chant from the traditional service, but with lovely turn-of-the-century harmonies.

As for recommended versions, I'm not sure I can make a definite one. Because they fit so well together they often appear coupled together. Both also come in three different versions - organ only, full orchestra, and reduced orchestration. And then there's the choice of boy trebles or adult soprano for the choir and/or Pie Jesu solo - so it all gets a bit complicated! While the organ-only version works fine in a liturgical setting (if ever you are in Oxford on November 2nd, make a date for Magdalen College chapel at 6pm to see the Faure done properly!), both really lose far too much in instrumental colouration for regular listening. The popular versions now are for reduced orchestra, given the current critical obsession with sparesness and textual clarity. I don't have the Faure in this version but from the description of the intrumentation I think it could also lose a lot - one of the magical moments is when the violins enter for the first time with an ethereal dreamy theme (half way though, in the Sanctus). I can't believe this works when reduced to just a single violin. Still, I've not heard it, so I shouldn't comment further. The "reduced" orchestration of the Durufle is still fairly full and does work well (although a bit fuller sound on the climaxes would still not go amiss).

I grew up with the Andrew Davies versions of both on CBS LPs (Philharmonia, Kiri Te Kanawa/Lucia Popp, Siegmund Nimsgern), which are full orchestral versions with big name soprano soloists. Both are now coupled on Sony at bargain price. They're not bad, but the Ambrosian singers don't really have a liturgical sound (may be a plus for you), and their (and Nimsgern's) tuning isn't great. I also have a Westminster Cathedral Choir version of the Faure conducted by David Hill (full orchestra, treble choir parts and soloist) on Pickwick, mid price. (He has a later version from Winchester with reduced orchestration on Virgin Classics, but the reveiw's pretty damning regarding recording quality, and it may or may not be deleted).

For the Durufle, I also have the quite highly recommended Corydon version under Matthew Best on Hyperion (reduced orchestra, soprano soloist, male altos), which is very touching. And this is a "must have" for Ann Murray's absolutely wonderful solo in the "Pie Jesu", and Thomas Allen's solos are sung beautifully sensitivity. This also comes coupled with their version of the Faure (reduced orchestra, sopranos) - which I've not heard, although "Gramophone" thinks them refined and beautiful but a bit bland. Their main recommendation is still Kings College and Willcocks from 1967 on EMI (mid price, but ridiculously short measure for nowadays at only 42 minutes of music). Aled Jones' famous recording (with Hickox and the LSO chorus/RPO on ASV) seems to have been deleted, but there seems to be a good one from Dutoit/Montreal on Decca (also with Kiri Te Kanawa).

I would go for the Faure/Durufle coupling from Best/Corydon on Hyperion (CDA 67070: you need that Murray Pie Jesu, and the alternative coupling of that recording is 4 Durufle motets, nice enough, but a bit short measure), and then check out Willcocks, Dutoit, or maybe even that earlier Hill, to see whether you prefer the fuller orchestration of the Faure.

In similar vein to the above, but still a compilation (although mostly of short pieces rather than excerpts), one of my favourite late night discs is "Illumina", a collection of unaccompanied choral pieces about light, ranging from plainchant to contemporary (Ligeti's Lux Aeterna). This has several settings each of the "Nunc Dimittis", and the early-Christian hymn "Hail Gladdening Light". My particular favourites are actually by the Russians: the Nunc Dimittis from Rachmaninov's Vespers, and the "Hail"s by Grechaninov and Tchaikovsky. This is by Clare College Choir under Timothy Brown on Collegium COLCD 125 (rather confusingly there's a completely different disc also from Collegium called "Hail, Gladdening Light" - a compliation of English church music, with only one setting of those particular words).

Opera
I'm afraid I don't know the full Lakme at all. It's not often done, which probably says a lot, given how famous its big number is. You're probably best off sticking with your highlights disc for that. If you want to try a full opera, I would agree with Ted that Puccini is probably a good place to start. Not so sure about Il Trittico though - I normally spend most of my time in these one-acters waiting for the big number ("O mio babbino caro" in Gianni Schicchi and "Senza Mamma" in Suor Angelica, although in the latter case he doesn then maintain that intensity right to the end). I would go for either "Tosca" if you want twisted melodrama, or "La Boheme" for something a bit more trivial (4 twenty-somethings falling in and out of love and bed, with a bit of cheerful starving and freezing and less cheerful dying of consumption - all to fantastic tunes). For the latter you can't go far wrong with the Freni/Pavarotti/Karajan recording on Decca - it was the second opera recording I bought (after Solti's recroding of Strauss' Salome).

 

If you want a good starting point for Puccini, La Boheme and Madame Butterfly are the places to be. The recent Roberto Alagno recording is wonderful for La Boheme, and it's hard to beat the classic Pavarotti on Butterfly, this is when he really could sing

 

As ever, Graham's there to make me look a bit inadequate. :shame: This is kind of a central issue, and I completely forgot to mention it originally.

Personally I'd incline towards the full orchestra for both the Faure and Durufle - the weight and power in the (infrequent) climaxes gives both these works a welcome degree of contrast, and the percussion and brass make unforgettable contributions to (for example) the Libera Me in the Durufle.

I actually rather like the very dark, sombre sound of the Faure orchestration without violins (as used by Gardiner), although I don't really have a strong preference either way. CD-wise, the Davis Faure / Durufle coupling (now on Sony Essential Classics) is decent enough, even if - as GrahamN notes - it's technically adequate rather than good in the choir. There's a hair-raising pitch bend in the middle of the climactic Libera Me in the Durufle on the CD transfer BTW, which detracts from the effect somewhat - I'm surprised they couldn't do anything about that. All round though Gardiner is streets ahead in the Faure IMO.

For the Durufle, there's Durufle's own recording which is now available on a cheapy Erato Ultima 2CD set - lots of passion if a bit erratic, and yet again the choir's tuning's not great. IIRC Hickox's version (which used to be on Decca Eclipse), which I don't actually own but have heard, is very good all round - he's with the LSO so there's plenty of weight and power there.

 

Blimey Graham - either you have a copy of the Penguin Guide and the Gramophone guide on your desk, or you are a walking encyclopedia! I know what you mean about Il Tritico, but I actually find I like it because I rarely get time to listen to a whole full length opera at once eg last night I started listening to a new recording of Billy Budd (thought I would try the Halle one under Nagano - not bad so far but I miss Pears!) and I only managed the 1st act before the phone rang...

Regarding recordings of the Faure, I personally prefer boys' voices rather than female - so much so in fact that I wouldn't listen to anything else. Being a viola player, and this piece is really one of those great show off pieces that all viola players love, I would also always go for the full instrumental rather than organ.

Just a thought - what is the original orchestration? Does it include violins or not? And I presume the solos were written for boy trebles?

 

as ever,I am deeply indebted for the replies,Grahams in particular must have taken a full opera to type!

much appreciated

 

Ted you're letting the side down, as a viola player you ought to prefer the version that has no violins just violas. We've got to stick together us members of the viola players union

 

So how many more violists will show up here - that's at least 3 now! Still, the Faure always brings us out. My most enjoyable orchestral moments always were in the first two movements of the Faure, divisi violas having a field day, and those damned prima donnas to our right having to sit and listen for once in their lives

I have a 10 year old copy of Penguin, which is still not bad (as it did a fairly comprehensive reveiw of all current versions available at the time), and www.gramophone.co.uk is a pretty good reference source - along with the liner notes of the versions I do have myself.

The original version of the Faure seems to be very similar to the Rutter reconstruction - although it seems he did make some errors in that, and Herreweghe used the parts from the original 1894 performance. The orchestral version was in 1900, and there're lots of comments from the reviewers about how Faure may have had very little input to that version. I ought not to knock something I've not heard much (I think I may well have heard a radio relay of that version), but I really don't like solo orchestral violins - they always sound a bit too twee (solos in Sheherezade, "Also Sprach" etc).

I think the original version of the Durufle was full orchestral, then along came the organ only (for easier liturgical performance), and then he produced the reduced orch version in 1962 as a compromise between practicality and the fuller textures required by e.g. the Libera Me - although that does have the advantage of including the organ that was not in the original full orchestral version. IIRC the "reduced" is still has a fairly full string section (24: 6-6-6-4-2), harp, organ and trumpets, but basically no woodwind section.

I can't remember whether either of them was written specifically for boys or womens voices. I oscillate between which I prefer. I do like the purer sound of a boys voice, but that normally comes with some crudity in intonation and phrasing that eventually palls. Also, post-Kirkby, women have realised that the is mileage in learning to since in a purer, low/no-vibrato style which really suits this music. So probably boys for live performance, but women for repeated listening.

PS re: Il Trittico - I should have held off dissing the whole until I'd heard "Il Tabarro", the Patane recording of which was sitting on my recent acquisitions pile (I got the other two a couple of years back). Absolutely no ideas what it's about, but I just had it on in the background while pratting about this morning, and it sounds great - good old heart-on-sleeve stuff all the way through. Funnily enough (considering the brickbats he gets for his performances in the Faure/Durufle) the star of the show is Nimsgern!

PPS: I thought that Graudiad review of the Gorecki 3rd the other week was quite scandalous - 1 star . Service obviously hated the music before he went into the concert, spent the whole review saying how dreadful the music was and only in the last sentence commented that the performance was extremely good - which it was . Given that Gamba's main reputation seems to be in light music, I though he did an excellent job of bringing clarity to the textures while building the sombre opressive mood, and Yvonne Kenny's solos were very moving.

 

I've got a 1997 and a 2000 Gramophone, the '94, '98 and '02 Penguins, and Rob Cowan's Classical 1000. :shame:

 

currently reading Schonbergs Lives Of The Great Composers (not many birds in it)

 

Great to see I'm not the only viola player on this thread! Actually when I said full instrumental, I meant "as opposed" to just the organ. I would not want the violas to lose their dominance! Completely agree about the satisfaction of forcing the violins to listen for a change!

Graham - interesting what you said about the Guardian's review of the Gorecki. I didn't go to the concert, but read the review as Rumon is a good friend of mine. It would seem that he was giving one star to the piece and the only mention about the performance was that it was committed. I guess that is why so many artists don't bother reading reviews.

I have about three editions of the Penguin Guide. It's one of those books I just love dipping into and I'm still amazed by how comprehensive it is. I tend not to bother with the Gramophone one as it only focuses on the best recordings (prefer to buy Gramophone magazine instead).

 

I have the 2002 Gramophone. I have had others as well but deemed them superfluous to my requirements. I decided on keeping the 2002 version as it has nice paper and smells the best. The 2003 version was a dirty stinking tome.

Hey, i read that a couple of years ago as my first introduction to classical music. I still dip into it occasionally.

Oh, what am i currently enjoying?

Nothing, at this very moment, but last night i had a brief sit down with Sibelius' Tapiola, which is from an Ashkenazy box set i got on the cheap.

 

Dvorak's Cello concerto on Radio 3.
Lovely