ESLab Tripath based digital amps

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. ANOpax

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    ESLab have revamped their range and received a glowing review in HFN a couple of months ago for their pre-power combo (DX P10 and DX S80).

    It looks like they've ceased distribution through dealers and have moved to the direct sales model with 14 day money back guarantee. Their prices have come down in the process and are now very competitive compared to the Bel Cantos. The amps have similar facilities (bridgeable) but lose out in the looks dept. I haven't done a detailed comparison of the specs, but someone with an interest in these things might care to have a go. Anyway, as we know, specs don't tell the whole story.

    DX S20 120wpc £1290
    DX S40 180wpc £1790
    DX S80 300wpc £2240

    Has anyone heard these new incarnations? I have heard the DX S4 and was very impressed but have been unable to compare it to its Bel Canto cousins. In addition, I've heard a couple of comments (one from WM on public fora and another from a well respected uk based amp designer) that the BC implementations leave a lot to be desired, particularly in the psu dept.

    Now, before the BC mafia come down on me like a ton of hot bricks, I'm not dissing the BC amps. In fact, I rather fancy one myself - it's just that I'd like to explore the alternatives and get some informed opinion on them. I'd do the comparisons myself if it wasn't for the fact that my stuff is currently in storage :( - so I'm relying on ZG for some feedback!

    reg

    :Quad:
     
    ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004
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  2. ANOpax

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    They do look interesting, ill also be interested to see if others have experience of them.
     
    penance, Sep 23, 2004
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  3. ANOpax

    Ken

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    Any body that is considering a "digital" type amplifier should check out the ICE module amps aswell as the Tripath amps.

    I have only heard wonderful glowing praise, they even drive the 1 Ohm Apogee Scintilla with absolute ease.

    They are also a helluvalot loss expensive.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2004
    Ken, Sep 23, 2004
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  4. ANOpax

    sideshowbob Trisha

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    If an integrated is on the cards the Sonneteer Bronte, (a) sounds great; (b) looks great; (c) shows up most of the competition as overpriced (£800).

    [​IMG]

    -- Ian
     
    sideshowbob, Sep 23, 2004
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  5. ANOpax

    Sgt Rock

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    Or even the LC audio ones
     
    Sgt Rock, Sep 23, 2004
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  6. ANOpax

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    Thanks for the Sonneteer suggestion Ian but my Quads are going to need at least 190wpc into 8ohms and 380wpc into 4, not to mention the ability to drive reactive loads (which rules out the PS Audio HCA-2). The little Bronte only manages 150wpc into 4ohms.

    So who is producing amps based on the LC Audio or ICE modules? And has anyone directly compared the competing Class D technologies and their various implementations?

    reg

    :Quad:
     
    ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004
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  7. ANOpax

    Paul Ranson

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    Which Quads need 190wpc?

    (40v peaks implies 100w rms into 8 Ohms)

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Sep 23, 2004
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  8. ANOpax

    michaelab desafinado

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    AFAIK there are no major players making amps based on LC Audio modules. I built one myself though and I'm very pleased with it.

    I only know of two companies using LC Audio modules in commercial offerings:
    Solar HiFi with their Fusion range of amps. Very well spoken of on AudioAsylum and they look very nice but it's a "one bloke in his garage" type operation...not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

    The other one is some Greek company who's name I can't remember that was mentioned on the LC Audio website at one time but now I can't find it.

    Of course (I nearly forgot) LC Audio market their own ready built power amp using their modules called the Predator. Looks very nice and not too pricey.

    Aren't the ICEPower modules the ones that power those B&O "Dalek" active speakers? I believe they are also the heart of the Jeff Rowland 201 and 302 series amps.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Sep 23, 2004
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  9. ANOpax

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    Yes Paul, but if you check the Quad data, you'll see that the clamps don't come on until 55v. The 40v peak is for 'undistorted' output, whatever that may mean. Please would you confirm that I've got my maths right if 55v is the theoretical limit? I'd rather that my amps had enough headroom to avoid clipping. Therefore, with >190wpc into 8 ohms, I'd expect the speakers to give up before the amps do.

    reg

    :Quad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2004
    ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004
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  10. ANOpax

    Paul Ranson

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    The specs are for 'programme peak' of 40v and 'permitted peak' of 55v. So I think the clamps are clamping at 40v and getting a bit hot at 55. That's quite a lot of power to dissipate. The ESL63 service manual also claims that the clamp is at 40v, although I'm not sure I understand the circuit.

    Since this is a clamp the effect is the same as amplifier clipping. I wouldn't be bothered about finding an amp that is much above 100W, although too much obviously isn't a bad thing.

    I'm interested to know how you get on with Class D amps and the ESL. I find the conventional amp I use with mine runs rather cooler than it did with a moving coil speaker so I think the load is rather benign, the low points are at high frequencies where there's no energy.

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Sep 23, 2004
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  11. ANOpax

    merlin

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    You might want to try the new Tact SDAi2175.

    225wpc into 8ohms, 375wpc into 4ohms. This integrated sells for just £995! The power amp, which a friend uses with AS Dax Decade and Dynaudio Confidence 5's, retails for just £740 - seems some manufacturers are being exposed ;)
     
    merlin, Sep 23, 2004
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  12. ANOpax

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    Oh. I thought the low impedance was in the lower registers see here and ISTR that the impedance curve for the 989 published in HFWorld showed a dip to about 3 ohms somewhere in the lower frequencies. Again, it's in storage so I'll have to wait to dig that one out.

    Nonetheless, I agree that 100wpc would seem to be more than adequate for getting some good sounds out of the ESLs. I will report back on how they gel with class D amps although HenryT might beat me to it (if his 989s ever arrive ;) ).

    reg

    :Quad:
     
    ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004
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  13. ANOpax

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Merlin
    UK Dealers?

    I'd like a demo of that. I see Tact sell direct, but tad far to go for a demo:(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2004
    penance, Sep 23, 2004
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  14. ANOpax

    LiloLee Blah, Blah, Blah.........

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    I'd expect your ears to give up before the amps :rolleyes: The 13 watts a Quad II produces is more than enough for most people.
     
    LiloLee, Sep 23, 2004
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  15. ANOpax

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    TacT SDAi2175

    Looks very enticing and at that price, it'd be rude not to give it a go.

    Merlin, I know you help out with TacT in the UK but are you in any way involved with the TacT Uk enterprise?

    Lee, I've not heard QuadIIs on the end of a pair of concentric ring ESLs so I'll reserve judgement on the power of 13 QuadII watts! I have, however, heard 989s on the end of II-Fortys and lets just say that power was deficient.


    reg

    :Quad:
     
    ANOpax, Sep 23, 2004
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  16. ANOpax

    Paul Ranson

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    If you look at the voltages at which they recorded those curves I think that any reasonable amp would have no bother. The minimum at the bottom end is up to 8 Ohms by the time the signal reaches 150mV. The other minimum is at more than 10K.

    The older ELS57 is, I think, a much more difficult to drive speaker, OTOH it's also much easier to destroy. And you wouldn't need as much as 100W to do so....

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Sep 23, 2004
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  17. ANOpax

    merlin

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    Tact now go direct through Tact UK. No dealers- no dealer margins - plus I suspect they are selling at relatively low margins themselves.

    Put another way, you would expect the integrated to sell for in excess of £2K through the normal channels. The build quality is excellent and the sound represents a total bargain at the price. My friend sold his Classe Cam 350 monos and went to the SDA2175. Not quite as sweet in the mid, but better bass and treble extension for 10% of the cost of the Classe :eek:
     
    merlin, Sep 23, 2004
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  18. ANOpax

    sideshowbob Trisha

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    Nice to see some competition at the cheaper end of the digital amp market. Only problems I can see with the Tact are: no volume knob (everyone knows real amps have knobs), and it's the wrong colour.

    -- Ian
     
    sideshowbob, Sep 23, 2004
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  19. ANOpax

    merlin

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    I do agree Ian that a knob is more Tactile. Having said that, the amp is available in black or silver, although your shade of blue was dropped for PC reasons.
     
    merlin, Sep 23, 2004
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  20. ANOpax

    sideshowbob Trisha

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    Black is good. But I couldn't cope without a knob.

    -- Ian
     
    sideshowbob, Sep 23, 2004
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