feedback on my blind dealer demo and Quad 99

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by dominicT, May 17, 2004.

  1. dominicT

    dominicT former member

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    Hi guys

    We the blind demo lasted for over two hours followed by a two hour sighted demo on the preferred system. Thanks to Arif at KJ West One in London who did a great job.

    We agreed a selection of equipment; my Wadia T3200 transport and Wadia x 64.4 DAC, Quad 99 CDP; Quad 99 and 909 power amps and Unico hybrid valve int amp; Sonus Faber Conertinos and Quad L11 and L12 speakers. I do not know what speaker cable we used but we used Nordolst Red Dawn interconnect between CDP and AMP. I was blindfolded and then Arif played system 1, system 2, system 3 etc and only told me that he was changing to the next system. There was no other information provided or comments from him on what he thought so I could not be influenced in any way. Arif was also instructed to duplicate one of the systems but to call it by a different system number to try to catch me out.

    The results:

    a) I would hate to be a sightless person. Arif had to leave the room a few times and not knowing if he was in the room or not and calling out to him and not getting a response gave me a feeling of helplessness - I refused to take the blindfold off!

    b) The differences were very noticable between the Quad power amplifiers, the Quad 11 and 12 speakers and the Quad CPD and my Wadia. There was less difference between the Quad amps and the Unico and the SFs and the Quad 12s.

    c) The 11s were just too small. I preferred the Q12s with the 99 over the 11s with the 909 by a long way. The 909 over the 99 had significantly more detail, grunt and a fullness of sound with the L12s though.

    d) The 12s had too much upper base when placed near the wall but this was reduced by moving from the 909 to the 99. The SF conertinos faired much better close to the wall with both the 99 and 909. There was little to chose between the Conertinos and 12s away from the wall. The Concertinos were more controlled but the midband on the 12s was slightly preferrable, maybe more open, but horses for courses; I was surprised how good both speakers were.

    e) The difference between by Wadia and the Quad CDP were massive; the Quad stood no chance; there was significantly more detail, naturness, smoothness, grunt, separation of instuments etc. The Quad was a touch more lively, the Wadia having more control. The Quad was difficult to listen to on the David Syvlian Everything and Nothing and David Bowie Live at the BBC. On both the vocals and guitar were unbearably harsh and I was wincing. The Bebel Gilberto and Sinatra/Jobim album were ok and listenable.

    f) Conclusions - I was impressed with the Quad amps and speakers but the Quad 909 / SF Conertino combo was very strong. I am interested in the Quad 99CDP but have reservations; the downgrade was much more than I thought that it would be and am concerned about the harshness. I have arranged a home demo for next weekend and Arif is confident that he can get rid of the harshness, maybe my Nordolst points will help (they did with my Copland but have no effect with my Wadia).

    g) more conclusions - did being blind make a difference. The differences were very clear and I do not think that I would have heard different if sighted. Not knowing what I was listening to made me very objective, especially as I did not know whether I was listening to my kit or not. I could not be protective and also whilst I favour SF speakers I might have disliked them in this test. I would recommend the blind approach when you want to upgrade your kit because blind you might prefer it but you really do need more listening at home as well.

    I will be advertising the Nuvista M3 and SF Amator IIs with matching walnut stands here and in the usual places. Both of the above are mint and I have owned them from new. M3 is three years old with a spare set of valves at £1900 (£3300 new - inc valves) and the Amator II2 are just onder two years old and also £1900 (£3250 new inc stands).

    I'm still thinking about the Wadia because it is just so good; I have been offered a very acceptable part-ex for it but if the demo next weekend goes well I will sell privately for £1800 if I could conclude this within a few days, otherwise I will part-ex for speed. The M3 and Amator IIs will sell within a few weeks so no worries there.

    I would appreciate any advice that you guys have on how to reduce the harshness of the Quad CDP. I really want to persevere with the Quad CDP due to its digital inputs (for my Apple Power book) unless you guys know of something similar in one box at the £1000 - £1500 mark.

    Cheers

    Dominic
     
    dominicT, May 17, 2004
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  2. dominicT

    lowrider Live music is surround

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    Stillpoints ERS might help, it did in my Arcam FMJ DV27... :rolleyes:
     
    lowrider, May 17, 2004
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  3. dominicT

    lowrider Live music is surround

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    I still dont understand why you are willing to lose money on your fantastic EAII to get something much worst... :confused:
     
    lowrider, May 17, 2004
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  4. dominicT

    joel Shaman of Signals

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    Teac VRDS25 has digital inputs I think. Certainly not in the Wadia class, though.
    As for speakers, weeeell...
     
    joel, May 17, 2004
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  5. dominicT

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Dominic,

    The Quad can sing quite well, when used in conjuction with the correct connecting equipment (See Ju2002's bake off thread from a few months back).
    Else an Advantage S1 (I'd take it over the Wadia 301 anyday) Central Audio has one for £1500 worth a serious earwig. T.
     
    wadia-miester, May 17, 2004
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  6. dominicT

    dominicT former member

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    Hola Antonio. I know that you think that I am crazy but I have had a change in priorities. The Concertinos were actaully very good. I also listened to them briefly against the Amator II replacements (Cremona?) and whilst not as good, still had that classic SF sound that we both love. Bottom line is that I am not as demanding any more of my hifi in the way that many people are here. I'm also selling my Rolex Explorer II as I think that wearing a £2300 watch on my wrist is not worth it and have reverted to my much inferior but still great Tudor Submariner! No I'm not going to be a tree hugger but will be investing in a huge plasma screen for my studio - much more benefit in my book.

    Tone I'll call you tonight around 7pm if you are in.

    Dominic
     
    dominicT, May 17, 2004
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  7. dominicT

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Will do skip, should have docked with base station by then Dom :)
     
    wadia-miester, May 17, 2004
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  8. dominicT

    lowrider Live music is surround

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    Whatever makes you happy, still, I didnt like the Concertinos that much, they sound like small speakers, didnt want them even as surround, on the other hand the Concertos sound like big speakers, I used them as front and surround... ;)
     
    lowrider, May 17, 2004
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  9. dominicT

    merlin

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    Don't bother with the CD player, just get a DAC and feed it from the Powerbook. The Hard Drive will be excellent and you'll get a better Dac (PT, EAD, CAL, Wadia) etc s/h on AG OK;)
     
    merlin, May 17, 2004
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  10. dominicT

    dominicT former member

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    Cheers Merlin, great thought and full marks for thinking outside of the box but the Mac will not always be around so I need a transport as well..... and I am hedging my bets so that if I end up getting frustrated with the sound like Garyi, as I will be using compression on the MAC, then at least I can stick the Quad on. Also what is AG? Is this somewhere to sell my gear?

    Antonio, I hear what you are saying but if I start getting critical then I will end up doing an upgrade not a downgrade! Anyway I will be demoing at home this weekend so will be able to compare the Concertinos with the Amator IIs.

    Dominic
     
    dominicT, May 17, 2004
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  11. dominicT

    badchamp Thermionic Member

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    I guess AG = Audiogon.com
     
    badchamp, May 17, 2004
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  12. dominicT

    ANOpax ESL-Meister

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    So Dom, I see from the 'dealers' thread that you're going with the whole Quad shebang after all. What convinced you that the cdp would be right for you after your initial reservations?

    reg
     
    ANOpax, May 27, 2004
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  13. dominicT

    wolfgang

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    Very affirmative conclusion from some one who actually try this method out. Hopefully you manage to reassure more people that there is no sensible reason to not try this out themselves some day.

    It really depends why you are auditioning yet another piece if hifi toy.
     
    wolfgang, May 29, 2004
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