Freezing CDs?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by spica, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. spica

    spica

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    just been reading an old hifi mag and came across an article on Cd accessories/ideas to improve the sound of..better or worse.
    One such old idea being to Freeze CD's
    Quote:What Hi*FI july 94.
    Suspend your disbelief for a moment.This really works! seal a CD in a freezer bag to avoid condensation, place it in a deep freeze overnight, then bring it back to room temperature slowly-either in the fridge or in a cool part of the house.
    We tried this using two identical CD's of the Race by Yellow, one was frozen the other left untreated,.The frozen version produced a noticeably deeper bass, which was cleaner, better seperated and completely lacking in tendency to boom which was exhibited by the unfrozen version. The music sounded a lot more three- dimensional with a deeper soundstage and the individual instruments were more precisely positioned between loudspeakers.


    The idea was given a 4-Star rating, some others were Sorbothane feet 2-Star, Seismic Sink 5-Star, RF stoppers 2-Star and house brick on player 0-Stars.

    Have heard mention of the idea many times before now and know a few who have tried it.. though without the amazing results given in the review, time to give it a try methinks.

    Any others done the Freeze trick ?

    Thanks :)
     
    spica, Apr 10, 2009
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  2. spica

    zanash

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    do you mean cryogenic or just your chest freezer ?

    I've not tried it by the way .....so can't offer any comments on its effectiveness ...but have tried a couple of the other suggestions ..sorbthane feet etc and found them to have positive effects ..thought in some instances I was not happy with the results [who says you never get negative comments on tweaks and mods ....] So if its better than sorbthane feet ...it could be worth a prospective punt ?

    I'd try on two identical disc ..one treated and one not and then see if you can hear any differences
     
    zanash, Apr 11, 2009
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  3. spica

    tuga

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    tuga, Apr 11, 2009
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  4. spica

    spica

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    Will try the chest freezer..unless i use the Vanilla Sky soundtrack :) oddly enough the motion picture soundtrack of Gladiator is the only doubled up i have, though not (imo) a good quality sound/recording, so will copy (clone) another and freeze the original.

    thanks Zanash.

    I agree TUGA...Magazines need home auditions before buying :)

    edit: thanks for the link "The key is to unfreeze the CDs slowly".. so it reads as if it's a Peter Belt idea ? all the more fun, but again the findings seem to be good !

    Quote :According to Cross, the reason is that some elements of that CD were mixed out of phase so they would stand out. I’m certain that Reznor has continued to experiment with this. Freezing The Downward Spiral made it far more engaging than it has ever been. For instance, the layers at the end of the song "Closer" are more in evidence. Little bits of sound present themselves that I have never heard before. NIN’s sound is close to industrial, with what at times sounds like machinery droning in the background. After freezing this disc, these sounds became more easily discernible. The overall NIN experience increased tenfold for me after freezing the disc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2009
    spica, Apr 11, 2009
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  5. spica

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Hmmm.... I can assure you that freezing a CD will have absolutely no effect on 'elements of the CD being mixed out of phase'. The CD mix and the phase relationships are fixed and cannot be 'undone'.

    By all means buy two copies of the disc and freeze one, but be aware that there are manufacturing variations between discs. Best way to do these things is to get someone to disguise the identity of the items under test. You'd be amazed how this 'tweak' eliminates supposed differences, and its free ;)

    But don't let me put you off trying this or any other Belt-like idea. Done these things myself over the years and there is no substitute for learning from experience.

     
    RobHolt, Apr 11, 2009
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  6. spica

    Pure_Carbon Diamond Tipped.

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    I've got 2 Seismic sinks, swear by them.
     
    Pure_Carbon, Apr 11, 2009
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  7. spica

    spica

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    Yes R-H..as the reviewer explained in the link given by tuga,the 'mixed out of phase' of the mentioned CD being the way the artist intended, the difference after freezing being improved detail. :)

    Nothing like a good blind test, i may make a quality CD copy, (CD recorder - found to be discernible from the original) and freeze the original, though i was hoping that there would have been a good few here on ZG that would have previously tried the freezing technique, you didn't make it clear if you had or hadn't 'Rob' ?
     
    spica, Apr 12, 2009
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  8. spica

    Tarzan

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    Freezing CDs

    ln a moment of boredom/madness l have frozen CDs and have to say there was good jump up in sound quality, well worth trying in my humble opinion, try it and let us know how you get on:).
     
    Tarzan, Apr 12, 2009
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  9. spica

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Yes, way back in the day. It's a fairly old idea and dates from the same period as the green pen fad (1980s).
     
    RobHolt, Apr 12, 2009
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  10. spica

    barty

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    i have frozen my complete collection and was impressed by the difference. 2 days in a freezer bag in my chest freezer, then a further 2 days in a tea towel in my fridge then 1 day in its case left open in my lounge. listened to the frozen cd and then compared it with an exact un frozen cd and the difference was huge , especially on acoustic un-busy tracks
     
    barty, Apr 12, 2009
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  11. spica

    spica

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    Was using them in the seventies..am also partial to a little green in the fountain :). Do you remember the results of the freeze 'rob' ?

    Thanks Tarzan, have had the idea floating around for a while, perhaps time to grab it, nice to hear you found improvement after the freeze, as it stands.. the positives are in the majority.Have copied a CD (Mingus) with thoughts for the test, was looking for a true copy, though as has happened before the copy has revealed *more* information/detail than the origional, still, am not deterred and i will be trying the freeze :)
     
    spica, Apr 12, 2009
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  12. spica

    spica

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    Thanks Barty, More improvement after the freeze, another positive, this is a must try, :)
     
    spica, Apr 12, 2009
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  13. spica

    RobHolt Moderator

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    You were using green pens on CDs back in the 70s before CD was invented? - :respect:

    I can't recall hearing any difference with freezing, suppose I'd still be doing it now if there was a difference.

    What issue/problem are you trying to improve with freezing, ie what is the problem that needs the cure?
     
    RobHolt, Apr 12, 2009
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  14. spica

    DavidF

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    Why does there have to be a "problem"?

    Maybe he is just interetsed in a general sonic improvement?
     
    DavidF, Apr 12, 2009
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  15. spica

    barty

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    barty, Apr 12, 2009
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  16. spica

    spica

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    RobH. to understand the separation you must be able recognize the difference :) it remains that i was using (as previously mentioned) green pens in the seventies regardless of there later uses/ absorbing qualities.

    You found no improvement..perhaps it was in the 'early days of CD' that you attempted the Freeze. perhaps the quality of CD and/or player wasn't great enough to digg deep into the grooves, to 'recognize the difference'?. May be worth another try ?

    as mentioned by DavidF... sonic improvement, perhaps not so obvious if the CD could be mistaken for a frozen megrim..but otherwise.... :)

    another interesting link, thank you Barty.

    Quote:My fascination with CD tweaks stems not from their intrinsic abilities to improve CD sound as much as it comes from the realization that if any tweak has even the slightest audible effect, conventional digital audio theory is turned upside down."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2009
    spica, Apr 13, 2009
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  17. spica

    spica

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    barty. how long have you used the freezing technique and does the improvement remain fixed,indefinite, or is there some return to it's earlier sound state as time passes. thanks.

    Synergizing with Greg Weaver. Soundstage.

    http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize199912.htm

    Quote: Hang on to your mice, Synergizers. This actually works! Things got better. The overall character of the change was that of a higher degree of clarity and focus, as if somehow the noise floor had been lowered. I'm not suggesting that freezing actually did lower the noise floor, only that the resultant sonic effect can be best described in that manner. Space within the soundstage was better resolved and differentiated. Low-level detail and subtle spatial queues were more readily apparent. Higher frequencies were reproduced more cleanly, with less "tizz" and "whiteness," while bass and midbass seemed to have extra punch and better control. Only one inconsistency to report: the frozen copy of Can't Buy A Thrill was a tad quieter than its untreated counterpart. The rest all seemed to be unchanged in that department.

    Listening to the tenor sax from the title track on Gaucho was even more of a treat on the frozen disc than the untreated one. It was more robust and present. The descending bass run from the opening of "Airhead" on Aliens Ate My Buick had more power and had greater weight and detail. The feeling of space and air surrounding the opening to "Telegraph Road" from Love Over Gold had been enhanced noticeably. The ride cymbal on "Reelin' In the Years" from Can't Buy A Thrill was more "bronzy," better focused and localized in space. The degree of transformation varied slightly from disc to disc, but was apparent on all discs nonetheless.

    But the most evident change was manifest on the Vivaldi piece. Violins and cellos rose to new heights. Their string sound, even the bowing of those strings, became much more focused and took on bloom and body that were stirring. Space between instruments wasn't so much enlarged as it was better demarcated, fleshing out the instruments in a more realistic fashion. Instruments all seemed more individualized and separate within the sonic landscape, yet didn't seem the least bit unnatural in their distinctiveness. The solo violin that opens the Largo was just more "there"; it reconstructed so effortlessly by comparison that I was really taken. Color me speechless -- again. This freezing thing actually worked!

    etc etc.
     
    spica, Apr 13, 2009
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  18. spica

    zanash

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    nice to see some positive results ...from one of those off the wall ideas much criticized in some parts.

    If you like that then you should try the glasse audio lathe ....I've had very good results [everyone bar none has been able to hear an improvment over the uncut cd]...
     
    zanash, Apr 13, 2009
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  19. spica

    barty

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    i have frozen my collection only the once and i have noticed no loss of quality, i've also frozen my interconnects and speaker cables using the same process and time scale. after reading the link i provided i actually gave peter belt of P.W.B electronics a call to ask if the freezing process was a process which had to be repeated over and over. His reply was only the once is needed.
     
    barty, Apr 13, 2009
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  20. spica

    RobHolt Moderator

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    I also used them in the 70s as a kid for my 'colouring books' and whenever we get an audit at work the auditor used green pen, so they are useful for some things.
     
    RobHolt, Apr 13, 2009
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