Hi from new member, and help needed :)

[penance]

Hi all
Ive been lurking since i saw the forum mentioned over at hfc

so hi to all

and now the blatent copy paste of my help request from elsewhere

The Contour landed at 1600hrs Friday
Oh boy, what a night!
Ill put my full views in to a review at some point but for know i have a question.

After a few days listening we have started to notice some sibbilence in vocals and symbols/snare etc..
We didnt hear this at all on the demo in the shop and it wasnt immediately apparent at home so im at a bit of a loss.
Im aware that my amp is probably the weak point of my system (see below) but surely that would of shown straight away?
Ive played with different positioning but all i can get is a better soundstage ( no bad thing ) but the high mids still seem forward and at some points almost painful

kit -
Amp - Audiolab 8000A
cdp - Rega Jupiter
Speakers - Dynaudio Contour 1.1
Cable - FFRC
ic - mountain snow Atlas Explorer

so is my amp at fault here or should i be booking more auditions?

 

[julian2002]

i'd say wait a month before even thinking about judging them. i've not heard dynaudio's before but most speakers straight out of the box will need to 'warm up' both mechanicly (the driver surrounds etc.) and electronicly (the cross over and voice coil etc.). if after a month of regular use they aren;'t improving then maybe start looking at changes elsewhere. a couple of good examples of speaker run in are my own b&w's and tony's (wadia miester) meadowlarks. both of these took a good 4 months to get going.

i know you really want to drop a bunch of cash on a new amp but leave it for a while or you';ll buy something that sounds ok now and then when the dyn's are run in may sound bad again... let your system settle down and have patience.

cheers


julian

 

[penance]

i forgot to say that they are ex demo, tho i have no idea how long they had been used for
wise words regarding the next upgrade. yes id love to spend loads on an amp, but it does have to wait a while

cheers

 

[Robbo]

Hi Penance. Welcome to the forum.

The dynaudios are good speakers and should not be the cause of any sibilance. As Julian said, leave them to run in a bit more.

The first thing that stands out is the amp IMO it could easily be bettered, and I would recommebd changing it. but If you want to keep it, the following step by step approach would be a good start :-

IMO, the first thing to do when sorting out any system is to look at the mains. Crap mains is often the cause of poor sound. Try some dedicated power cables. Eupen cables are good performers and very reasonably priced.

Next step, Interconnects. I am not familiar with mountain snow, but I would recommend something like Kimber PJB as a good value, good performing IC. I am sure others here can recommend other good value ICs

That brings me onto the speaker cable. my advice - get rid of it! the high frequency nastiness is highly likely to be exacerbated by the FFRC - Nasty stuff IMO (others here may not agree though). Kimber 4TC or 8TC is good cable, and not bright or hard. again others may well have some alternative recommendations

Finally, look at isolation. A seismic sink can really make a huge difference underneath a CDP. it has removed a layer of hash and digital hardness with every player I have heard it used with.

Hopefully of some of the above suggestions may help solve your problem.

Cheers, Robbo

 

[penance]

Robbo
Thanks for the reply and welcome

I agree about the amp. I may go power amp next and then look for a pre after, a few months yet, need to recover from buying the cdp and speakers

Im looking into mains at the moment, do you think it will make that much difference?

The FFRC is a new experiment, ill readilly accept it may be a culprit

Im also looking at isolation, maybe trying the diy flexi support and some plinths

Cheers

 

[julian2002]

penance,
ex-demo is going to mean they've had a bit of a go but they will also have been left idle in the shop for perhaps days on end so i'd count them as brand new.

cheers


julian

 

[Robbo]

Im looking into mains at the moment, do you think it will make that much difference?

Yes!

try some eupen cords from audusa. Im not sure if they do sale or return, but the cheapest is about £50

http://www.audusa.com/main.htm

 

[davidcotton]

Originally posted by penance
Robbo
Thanks for the reply and welcome

I agree about the amp. I may go power amp next and then look for a pre after, a few months yet, need to recover from buying the cdp and speakers

Im looking into mains at the moment, do you think it will make that much difference?

The FFRC is a new experiment, ill readilly accept it may be a culprit

Im also looking at isolation, maybe trying the diy flexi support and some plinths

Cheers

What speaker cable/ic's did you use at the demo in the shop? If its not the same as the ones your now useing that could be a probable cause. Give the shop a bell and inquire as to what they were using.

 

[kermit]

What speaker cable/ic's did you use at the demo in the shop? If its not the same as the ones your now useing that could be a probable cause. Give the shop a bell and inquire as to what they were using.

good call david

 

[kermit]

That brings me onto the speaker cable. my advice - get rid of it! the high frequency nastiness is highly likely to be exacerbated by the FFRC - Nasty stuff IMO (others here may not agree though). Kimber 4TC or 8TC is good cable, and not bright or hard. again others may well have some alternative recommendations

i asked this in a previous post , but didn,t get an answer

what,s the difference between kimber 4 tc , 8tc and ffrc .
i can,t see one , any ideas?

 

[wadia-miester]

Originally posted by kermit
i asked this in a previous post , but didn,t get an answer

what,s the difference between kimber 4 tc , 8tc and ffrc .
i can,t see one , any ideas?

Richard quite simple really, the Kimber (although not my fave cable) doesn't share anything sound wise in common with FFRC (thankfully), construction, my 'be akin too', it aint cat 5 and I think is a little unfair to compare it too, remember even Mr Tact, uses 8TC/4TC

 

[timpy]

Hi Pennace

It's interesting that you think the Audiolab may be the culprit. Just because the amp is approaching middle age, doesn't necessarily mean that must be responsible for any of the sins in the system. Let's hope that people don't make the same assumption about us as we get older!!

As has been suggested, it's time to find out which cabling was used in the shop where you got the speakers demod. FFRC is a hi-fi crime IMHO, and the shop certainly won't have been using that.

Other than that, I agree with Julian and Robbo, (not just because they are moderators ), your Dynaudio's no doubt do need to be run in more. Best make the dealer aware of the situation now though, as he may be more sympathetic if you decide you can't live them in a few weeks time, if you mention it to him now.

Cheers

 

[kermit]

Richard quite simple really, the Kimber (although not my fave cable) doesn't share anything sound wise in common with FFRC (thankfully), construction, my 'be akin too', it aint cat 5 and I think is a little unfair to compare it too, remember even Mr Tact, uses 8TC/4TC

fair point , sound wise ,WM , but what i,m trying to find out is why is it different sonically .
there must be a reason

i ,ve used the weave to make a sub woofer cable (using 15amp)and that works well in that context .
it has to be something like quality of the cable used or whether its multi stranded against solid core or maybe quality of the copper used .
why i am trying to find out is that if we could nail down the differences (especially as we have members on the forum who own them )then maybe some diy,ers can make themselves better cables cheaply .
and then instead of saying "ffrc is crap , buy brand x , then we could say "ffrc is crap , but you could try using .....to make yourselves a cheap alternative ."

 

[MO!]

if WM and Timpy knew (know) that, they're not likely to tell us now are they They'll just sell it to you?

The backlash begins!

J/K

 

[penance]

The shop used my own interconnect with Naim speaker cable, not sure what one but was around the £7 p/m bracket.
Ill phone them today and have a chat.

I know the Audiolab isnt all bad, it has served me very well. But i think it does have a forward delivery of the higher end and so i was thinking maybe my match of speakers was showing it. Im kinda grasping at straws
I had a longer listen later last night and although i enjoyed it the sibbelence was still there.

Im just confused as to why it wasnt apparent to start with, i thought the speakers would sweeten with more use

 

[ANOpax]

The culprit is revealed...

Naim speaker cable

Fine stuff for Naim systems, generally accepted as rolling off the high frequencies in most other systems. This probably explains why you didn't hear the sibilance in the shop.

As for why you didn't hear it at home to start with, maybe you were too excited with your new toys to notice and only after extended listening did the problem become apparent...


reg

 

[Robbo]

Penance,

Don't forget that the sibilance does not necessarily originate from the speakers. Crap mains, dodgy cables, source components, amps etc all can be a root cause.

Don't shoot the messenger

Robbo

 

[penance]

Originally posted by Robbo
Penance,

Don't forget that the sibilance does not necessarily originate from the speakers. Crap mains, dodgy cables, source components, amps etc all can be a root cause.

Don't shoot the messenger

Robbo

Yea im aware of that, ill accept that it's more likely to be from a source or cable.
I think im going to try mains and speaker cable first and then some different amps.
Would that be a good route?
I spent ages reading reviews and asking around before i auditioned the 1.1's (with others on the day aswell) and not once did i read of this problem. So im guessing its not the speakers but something else.
Also at the shop, once i had decided on the 1.1's the guy hooked up a Rotel RB1070 to show how they can improve with more current on tap, and boy did it improve. So thats where i get my amp line of thought

 

[wadia-miester]

Originally posted by kermit
fair point , sound wise ,WM , but what i,m trying to find out is why is it different sonically .
there must be a reason

and then instead of saying "ffrc is crap , buy brand x , then we could say "ffrc is crap , but you could try using .....to make yourselves a cheap alternative ."

Richard, the FFRC has been done to death more times than i care to remember .The weave is a common enough process and used in a large number of cables, Nordost (eldorado), Ixos 1051 aptia gamma (i/c's and Speaker cable) plus a host of others.
Now cat 5 costs about £25 for a 25m drum? from maplins, so if your have say two 3 m runs, and you want a 5 core construction thats 30 m of the stuff, plus your drill now thats a lot of hassle for a little return, there are better cables available 'Off the reel' for about £4m so that would £24 plus termination (on the cat 5 as well) although a lot of guys run bare wires.
So, how many ways are they to do Cat 5?.
IOO, there is one overiridding factor that nearly all people (99%) over look when constructing it, that does have a fair difference in preformance, if you take it into consideration
However the bottom line is, unless you want to really have a go at this Type of cable, your are better off, buying a reasonably priced alternitive.(and trust me we have heard the odd one or 2)
The Ubyrte Version, is better and worth a go (but it does cost more), again TNT site stuff.
A few months back I knocked up some very cheap i/c's as an experiment, and let a couple of the forum guys have them total cost £2.50, plus some nuetrik profi's I had kicking about, it was off the roll stuff, seems it was well recieved but it was made from shop bought off the reel shock horror Silver Great white shark, we got fed up of all the GWS is the muts stuff, we knew already, so we thought we let you guys decide.
Cable arts, are about research and patience, with some good fortune thrown in and some defty hand work. WM

 

[bottleneck]

Cable arts, are about research and patience, [/B]

thanks very much picasso! hehehehe

youre right though. excess fannying about can reap rewards for the patient man.

Back to my own view on the question.

You heard the demo in a different room, and that makes all the difference in the entire world.. Personally, I wouldnt reccomend you buy anything - just borrow everything.

Have a massive weekend-long play : swap cables, amps, interconnects, mains leads around until you get to your favorite solution for the least price... if you dont get there take it all back and borrow some more stuff next time - impulse is for deodorant not hifi hehehe

Personally I suspect either the setup - how youve got your new speakers setup, the fact that they are new, the room itself.

I think a better amp will make things better still, but something else seems wrong with the way you have things imo.

chris