How to fix woolly bass from a CD player?

I've had my Meridian 200/203 transport/DAC combo for a couple months now. I love how it sounds for the most part - the one thing really letting it down is bass performance. It's just a bit woolly and confused and overblown in places.

My question is whether this might be caused by the age of the thing (15 years or so) and whether there would be any components that might be causing it due to age, and that I could get replaced..? Is there anything that springs to mind, ye wizards of the digital audio arts..?

Alternatively, does anyone have similar experiences with the 203..? It was a pretty high-end device when it came out so it seems unlikely to me that it would have such obviously "not great" bass, particularly for a CD player (which usually have pretty well-behaved frequency responses).

Cheers,

Dunc

 

I used to own a 203, and did find that the bass was a little unruly with a big "lump" in the middle of it.
I eventually replaced it with a Teac VRDS-7, which was a decent improvement for the same price, followed by a Naim CD5i, which was another step up again.

I'd now suggest that the 203 is looking a little outclassed by newer gear. Whilst it was better than the Arcam 7se that it replaced, it's clearly beaten by better kit.

I'd suggest a newer DAC matched with your existing 200 drive, which is meant to be very good.

 

I settled on the 200/203 after trying out a number of different CD players (including my previous player, a Meridian 507, and Arcam CD93, Alpha 9, Inca Katana, Naim CD5, and others), and apart from the bass, the 203 was just better. It didn't have the artificial-sounding top end that seemed to produce an ever-present glare, that all the other players had. (Actually, the Alpha 9 didn't have the glare either, but it also didn't sound as liquid and natural.) Just natural, lively, easy-to-listen-to music. Sounds clichéd, but it's true.

And it certainly never sounded outclassed by the other players.

I'm hoping to get myself a DAX Decade at some point, but won't be able to afford one for a while so I'd like to squeeze the most out of the Meridians, though from what you say the bass problem may not be due to age after all, and just a downside of the design...

Dunc

 

what's it sitting on? (clue to what i'd look at).

 

Dunc, if you can get a NOS dac on Sale Or Return it would be worth a try.
Definately not wooly sounding.

Cheapest GOOD dac IMHO.

 

Bottleneck, where can you get it on trial? Based on recent experiences I really don't want to buy any CD players without trying them in my system first..!

Cab, support is el-cheapo hifi rack that generally manages to avoid mucking up the sound too much (as compared to the couple of glass-and-steel jobbies I've tried). Could try improving the support situation I suppose... Any suggestions?

Cheers,

Dunc

P.S. - Just so you know the bass issue is much less important to me than the easy musicality and lack of glare of the 203, so anything I replace it with will have to have the same qualities before I even consider it - I ain't just looking for something with tight, clean bass (the 507's bass was superb, but I still prefer the 203).

 

Air bladder support. 203 dac is i believe early bitstream (i think its 2xsaa7321) and whilst reknowned for a smooth quailty (which i love) is also know for problematic bass. There are also DIY (read: soldering) solutions, particularly the improving the vref apaprently.

 

try an argos granite slab.. in fact try two.. one on top of the players one beneath,

I tried this on my old SONY cd player and the bass tightened up nicely. Probably because it stops the chassis vibrating like mad. This in turn means the laser can read more accurately and in turn better bass and imaging.

not sure how rattly the tops of meridian 200's are but id definately think about granite on top.

i used a cut up mousemat between granite and device to stop the top getting scratched and also to absorb more vibrations. The end result was quite good. and all for only £12

 

dunc

depends on the budget. mental money - stillpoints and symposium thingies. real world money - granite slabs from asda (cheaper than argos) and some squash balls cut in half or some clearlight audio cones (rsc 2 or something like that). an audiophile base will also improve your bass but around a 100 quid.

what cables are you using?

 

Thanks for the recommendations. Will have to do a bit of pondering, tho definitely not spending silly money (that's going into the DAX Decade savings account...)

Cab, using a QED 75-ohm cable between the transport & DAC, Ecosse Reference 'Maestro' MA-2 interconnects to the preamp, and some nice, high quality pro XLR leads to the actives. IME cabling makes very subtle differences at best, but if you have any suggestions for improving bass performance I'd be curious to hear them.

Cheers,

Dunc

 

Im sorry I dont know where you can get them SOR.

I heard them a/b with julian's DAX decade. It was honestly a case of choosing the presentation you preffered between them. There were no winners or losers I felt.

I'd imagine in different systems a different choice would be prefered.

In what you're describing you want from your CDP, the NOS dac would score over the Decade. I would say the bass on the decade was fuller, and the NOS dac's bass was tighter.

 

Dunky, I used to use this interconnect from my CDP to amp and I would suggest it is where part of your problem may lie. Since moving to different cables and doing a direct comparison (not blind, admittedly, but I really didn't care which cable stayed, I just wanted what sounded best to me) it became obviously apparent that the Maestro is definitely a bass heavy, even 'muddy' cable. Certainly in my system anyway.

I know they seem to be disliked around these parts but I'd seriously suggest you demo a Nordost interconnect in it's place, the Solar Wind comes up regularly at decent prices on eBay.

 

Asda do a pack of three squash balls for less than 5 quid, B&Q do a pack of 4 rubber 'castor cups' for £2.99. Buy a couple of each an try them under the 200 and the 203.

 

dunc

re: cables...try mid-level black rhodiums. i had your combo once, i used a sonic link violet b/w the dac and transport. no bass problems. still have it if you want it (for reasonable money).

 

Bottleneck>
Are you really saying that a £150 NOS DAC has a similar overall ability to the Decade?

 

Mr S

I'd say the sound quality is as good as anything I've heard from the listening I've spent with it.

The sonic presentation is different to what you might expect though, its clear and uncluttered IMO.

What suits is obviously going to depend on the kind of presentation you like from your source.

 

I recently had a dramatic improvement in my soggy bottom, when I aquired two Base01 platforms and put one under the CD player and one under the turntable. Much improved indeed, and a considerable surprise to me indeed, I've always been sceptical that way. If you can get hold of something like that or even the chopping boards and try it it could well be worth it

 

Hmm. Been playing with speaker positioning and it seems to have cleared up most of the "woolly" bass I was attributing to the CD player. Serves me right for making assumptions!

There's still a bit of a hump in the response but it's just a freq response thing now (rather than something that affects timing or resolution) and much, much less offensive.

In my defense I have only recently moved flats (about a month ago actually). Keep in mind it took me a full year (no kidding!) to find just the right positioning in the previous flat! Sounds pretty damn good right now though I must say..........

Dunc

 

I really dont think all these vibration absorption suggestions are going to help much, ultimately it is the way the CD player sounds. An upgrade/DAC is the only real solution.

 

i must say that whilst i quite liked the nos dac i did find it quite 'loose' in the bass where the decade was 'tighter'.
i've found this with most dacs with, if you'll excuse the expression, weedy psu's. my experience is if you want tight bass then sort out the psu. i would really like to hear a nos dac with a really beefy psu - like michaelab now uses or tom alves uses.
as for the nos being in the same league - definately (with the caveat above) however build quality, remote control, functionality, features, labour, profit, etc. are all factors in the decades greater cost. you pays your money, you takes your choice.
cheers


julian