Is this forum still active?

Hello,
looking at the lack traffic and replies here, I have to wonder where everyone has gone?
Social Media groups somewhere perhaps?

 

Yep it's a bit of a mystery when it used to be an active forum.

 

I try to do my bit

Did Rob Holt once own this forum?

Hmm.... "Admin/Owner" and only 2 posts? Joined Nov '23? The plot thickens

 

A year or so ago, I tried to reply to threads, at least enough to get a discussion going, but found I was mostly talking to myself.

Hopefully, the forum will restart under new owner. It would be nice if the focus was on technical and objective matters, and not descend into yet another subjective, all opinions are equally valid, foo-laden pile of crap as most other audio forums have become.

S.

 

It would certainly be nice if it could become an active forum once more yes! Quite what that requires and why it has become so deathly quiet are another matter.... A pattern of new members joining, seemingly to ask one specific question, and then never being seen again can be clearly seen.


I concur, by and large, with your own opinions as stated in your last sentence... but even there differences abound, eg I consider the differences between amplifiers to be MASSIVE (yes even similarly measuring ones) and pretty much as important as those between speakers but some believe all amps that measure well to sound the same.... obviously I consider everything said about cables, interconnects, plugs and sockets, fuses, supports for non microphonic equipment, etc etc to be a "foo-laden pile of crap" though yes!

A current (sorry!) bugbear of mine is aftermarket external PSU's and the way that the uneducated seem to think they are always a good idea and make huge improvements irrespective of the circuit topology in use and whether it's even possible for a "better" external PSU to make any difference in a particular instance.

At the end of the day though we've been here before countless times and unfortunately hifi in this day and age is the province of the tantric mystic and snake oil seller... worse still, such is the all pervasive influence of profit-from-foo that the average punter is bombarded by complete lies and BS from every angle... Anyone who actually knows what they are talking about and has a solid engineering background is actually regarded as a lunatic maverick!! Unfortunately where once upon a time audiophiles would learn from respected technical reviewers and hefty engineering tomes they now "learn" from said snake oil pushers and virtually every magazine, dealer, manufacturer and internet site related to hi fi is plying the same "foo-laden pile of crap" and "hey... if 90% of world opinion is saying the same thing it must be right!".... With the industry making nearly as much money from snake oil as from equipment sales I'm afraid voices such as ours Serge are now lost in the wind

 

Hi Shaggy,
As the new owner of the Forum, perhaps you might like to introduce yourself, and give us some idea of your plans for developing the forum.

When Rob and Simon were involved with the forum (I'd never heard of Ian) I was happy to help with replies, and I've seen Jez (Arkless) quite active too. It would be nice to have another active audio forum that was mainly technical.

S.

 

Hi fi is a topic which is in many regards entirely technical as it is the product of electronic, electrical, mechanical and acoustic engineering. However to the majority of end users this is all "here be dragons".... hence the situation where large percentages of end users believe total twaddle about magic fuses and enchanted wires etc. A certain amount of technical knowledge is required in order to recognise the difference between fairy tales and valid engineering points!

There are many ways of looking at all this though and eg the average motorist will tell you that they have no technical knowledge of digital fuel injection systems or variable valve timing but they still drive a car and have opinions as to which car they prefer etc. Should those who own and drive a car be shut out of discussions on all things automotive if they can't re-wire a DFI module or set the valve timing?? I think not....

However, and to keep with the automotive analogy, we've unfortunately reached a point in hi fi where the opinion of those who believe go faster stripes really make the car faster are considered as valid as the opinions of an automotive engineer. Worse still it's got to the point where maybe 80% of non technical people consider it proven fact and common knowledge that go faster stripes DO make the car faster and all car dealers, car magazines and car advertising agree with this fallacy as they are all making good money from aftermarket go faster stripes! Try telling people that this is all twaddle and those who have "drank the kool-aid" and bought the go faster stripes take great offence as people don't like being told they are wrong, they've "been had" etc.... in fact once someone has got to their 4th set of ever more expensive go faster stripes and has posted on car forums about how great they are they would sacrifice their first born before they would admit that go faster stripes do nothing beyond being a (dubious!) styling exercise.

It's like trying to persuade born again christians that it's impossible to turn water into wine or part the red sea.... good luck with that!

 

I'm going to make an effort to come on here more often but given you were last seen 2 weeks ago, I don't think I'm much less regular than the forum owner

 

I think this is part of the problem, the new owner doesn't seem to be active on their own forum.

One wonders why they ever took it on.

S.

 

I reckon the past 15 mins or so must be the busiest this forum has been in years!

Indeed it is bizarre to find a hi fi forum where the owner/admin is so notable by his absence....

 

I like a good read and am no expert, so don’t contribute if I don’t see any value. But I’m still alive!
Hifi was alway highly subjective and I know full well I’d not be able to hear the difference 4mm speaker cables mak from 1 mm. furthermore, I’m limited by cost and always have been. What I do like is a good cheap repair that breaths life back into something. That generally what brings me here.

 

C'mon Shaggy let's get this forum going again!

 

We're all dying off - the younger generation is fine with MP3s and phone streaming!

 

Although other forums like Pinkfish and the new Maverick Forum are busy. My preferred forum, Audio Science Review is extremely busy.

What gets me about all forums except ASR, is how loony-tunes ideas are never challenged, all opinions are equally valid, especially the stupid ones, and 'Even my wife heard the difference from the kitchen' type statements are commonplace. I had hoped this forum might develop differently under a new owner that's pretty much starting from scratch given the low levels of traffic, but it doesn't look like that's going anywhere.

S.

 

Au contraire!! I'm barred from almost all forums for challenging the nonsense and refusing to be shouted down. I was banned from one forum for refusing to agree that plugs and sockets all sound different depending on brand (a hobby horse of the idiot running the forum). I joined the new maverick forum and posted a few snippets of technical advice in answer to the queries of members, (nothing contentious or related to foo, all was well received) and was contacted the next day by mods to tell me I'm banned just for being me!
(exactly the same with the wam).... Yet another forum banned me for refusing to concede that mains fuses make a difference... Usual scenario where a moderator or forum owner reckons mains fuses make a huge difference and takes it as an effrontery to be TOLD that he is 100% certainly wrong as it would break the laws of physics. It seems that if someone on such a forum claimed water is flammable or bricks float one is required to say something like "I have never found this personally but maybe you are more observant than myself"

No one else really backed me up in all this and all would just back down, disappear or demur when faced by a baying mob of retards claiming that wire can boost bass or whatever!!

In the world of hi fi today the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum and if you do not go along with the foo nonsense than you are not welcome... too many vested interests have seen to that.... foo is big business.

I consider ASR just as bad from the opposite direction and would not wish to join. Whilst pretty much everything said about magic fuses, interconnects, speaker cable, mains leads, earthing boxes, supports etc etc is complete nonsense (and a pack of lies in fact, especially when claimed by manufacturers, magazines and dealers etc), there is much more to good sound than perfect measurements alone. Some of the worst sounding amplifiers I have ever heard have had fantastically good measured performance for example.

I reckon that with this forum and a few other equally "dead" ones the issue is that never enough "momentum" is built up.... ie people look at it, see that days can go by without a single post, and think "I'll not bother posting there 'cos it's dead"... a self fulfilling prophesy really.

 

ASR is all about verifiable measurements or blind testing. If you have a bad sounding amplifier that measures well, then either that's your personal opinion....and we all know about opinions... or there's something wrong with your listening tests. They perhaps weren't done level-matched (to 0.1dB or blind, ideally double-blind). Those that post on ASR either test with academic rigour, or they get shouted down.
It's a tough forum for anyone with subjective opinions that either haven't been, or can't be rigorously tested.

I think in most cases, you would fit in well, but it might just take a bit more rigour on your part in describing the test methodology when expressing opinions on amplifier sound.

Give it a try!

S.

 

I'm afraid I disagree with that just as strongly as I disagree with magic mains fuses improving bass extension etc. I have personally designed, built and tested literally hundreds of amplifiers and I have little idea (nor has anyone else, no matter what they may claim) why they sound different beyond obvious "first order" effects which usually can be measured, such as FR, THD etc etc. It is usually not difficult to make all these parameters good enough to be beyond suspicion, ie "blameless" as Doug Self called it. They still all sound different. Units with really bad measured performance will sound bad but those with really good measured performance may not sound much better!

I'm prototyping a new design at the moment and in spite of all the "golden ears approved bullet points" it ticks (class A, hybrid, low feedback etc) I have no idea if it will sound good until I hear it... despite the breadboarded single channel I've built and tested showing <0.005% THD, FR 1Hz - 250KHz etc. Not until measured results get worse than failing to meet 20Hz - 20KHz FR and THD >0.1% would I expect the specs to have any real bearing on it!

You've also somewhat proved my point by avoiding replying to anything/adding to anything in my post which might annoy the foo worshipping natives! It is they who need to be "shouted down"!!

 

I still have doubts about your methodology. Unless the tests are carried out blind (ideally double-blind) and carefully level matched, I don't see how you can say that they sound different, except as opinion. You think they sound different. They may do, but without a rigorous methodology, you can't be sure.

My starting point is that I believe nothing, everything has to be proven, using rigorous methods, or it's just anecdote.

S.