Krell KAV-400xi vs. SimAudio i-5

OK, had these two babies in my system last night. Actually, I've had the Sim since Tuesday and will be returning it tomorrow morning. The Krell is in such high demand that I could only have it for a couple of hours and the guy from the shop accompanied me He's actually a very nice guy. Slightly eccentric but seriously knows his stuff. Has made his own turntables in the past and is absolutely obsessive about the machining tolerances on the stuff he makes. He also repairs turntables as a side business.



Anyway, I'd got to know the Sim pretty well by yesterday evening and I like it a lot. It's a big improvement over my Arcam and it has a really nice fast sound. Plenty of dynamics and really "alive" sound that gets you into the music. However, this doesn't come at the expense of soundstage or the "air & space" stuff that some people are so keen on which it also has in spades. It also has a sense of liquidity and flow to the music the type of which I've only heard with valve or Class A amps allthough I wouldn't go so far as to call it valve-like. Looks wise it's gorgeous aswell (IMO) and nice and compact and extremely well build. Doesn't get that warm either which is surprising.



So onto the Krell. Big bloody box this one. It's so deep it barely fitted on my rack. With its feet at each end of the platform it stuck out about an inch in front and behind. At 42cm deep it's almost as deep as it is wide (43cm). Goes without saying of course that it's beautifully built and I really liked it's understated, stylish looks. So, how does it sound? Well, kicking off with Nitin's "Beyond Skin" (it's becoming my standard demo disc ) and you're immediately hit by unbelieveable bass. Honestly, the Krell has such good bass extension and controled my Dyns so well that I would have needed to use my subwoofer to get the same results using my Arcam (btw, I didn't use my sub with either amp because it would just complicate things). I guess this is where the Krell's 200w (400w into my 4ohm Dyns) really count. In terms of soundstage, detail and imaging it's also very impressive. It's a very good amp no question but after a while it was clear that it was no match for the Sim (at least for my preferences). It just wasn't nearly as involving. The sound has lost a lot of life and naturalness compared to the Sim, both things that are so key to having the "live" experience with hifi. Better bass than the Sim, yes, but I can live with that (and I can also just use my sub ).

The Krell potentially still had its trump card to play though as it has a set of balanced inputs which I could use with my Chord DAC64. The Krell is apparently designed for balanced operation from the start so it might really improve things. So, in addition to the single ended NuVista + Bullets cable of mine we hooked the DAC64 up to the Krell with some Nordost Red Dawn balanced cables that the dealer had brought with him. It only required 30 seconds of listening to determine that the single ended input was better. Even the dealer immediately agreed. Balanced had a bit more detail and clarity but it was even less lively and flowing. As NuVista and Nordost RedDawn are totally different cables this could be down to the cable differences as much as balanced/single-ended but it meant that the balanced inputs weren't going to swing it for the Krell. Very nice amp and some people will probably love it and it really does have incredible power and bass extension but it's the SimAudio for me

Come February (when hopefully I'll have a bit of extra money coming my way) I shall be getting one unless something else pretty incredible turns up in between now and then.

Michael.

 

Damn, lost the bet

Seriously, I am really glad you chose the Sim. Having heard Merlins pre/power combo I know how good Sim amps are, they just get on with communicating the music, and as you say the build quality is unsurpassed.

You can now join me in evangelising sim products to the masses

I also reckon that Sim gear would appeal to many of the flat earthers out there.

Cheers, Robbo

 

Ah - so it was you was on the losing side of the bet I thought Tone had me down for the Krell

I've been listening to the Sim all day today and it really is fab. Can't wait to own one

Also had the Sim Nova CD player in last night, a friend of mine is considering one, and we played it off against the DAC64 and that really was no contest IMO. The DAC64 won it hands down. The Nova did the timing and musicality well but then so does the DAC64 and in comparison to the DAC64 it really had a very poor soundstage and image. OTOH, it wasn't warmed up so it wasn't a totally fair comparison. This friend later took it home and had it playing in his own system and says its fantastic (and he's had the DAC64 in his system before aswell) so it's either a synergy thing or it just needed time to warm up.

I too think that Sim gear would appeal to flat earthers out there. All the flat earth attributes with none of the compromises :JOEL:

Michael.

 

Actually we had you down as an air and space kind of guy and we all said you would go for the Krell.

Glad to see you proved us wrong

 

That old synergy thing again. It just goes to show that even the best kit may not always shine in every system.

It will be interesting to see what you make of the eclipse in my system.

 

It will be interesting. Looking forward to it. I'll be bringing some cables with me for you to try out aswell. Tone want's to know how my NuVista ICs sound in your system (well, I think he actually is hoping to prove that they're shite ) and I'll bring along my Dynaudio OCOS speaker cable...still looking for a buyer for it and I'd be interested to see how it sounds in your system.

Michael.

 

I hope you are going to bring some music as well!

TBH, I dont really want to mess around too much with cables, as I dont want to keep switching the amp on and off - not good for the valves you see. In any case the kimbers work a treat in the system (just to piss WM off)

 

OK, will try to remember to bring some music aswell. I won't bother with the speaker cables then but ICs you can change without turning the amp off - muting works fine for me.

Michael.

 

I am really glad to hear that the magic of Sim lives

Got my set up and running again now and I have to say, the amps are pretty special, and I concur with the valve analogy.

BTW, they are sounding fairly sexy with good old vinyl

 

thought I would dig this one up so as to prompt Michael into comment ...

Just been for a listen to the Sim Moon I-3 fed into some JMLab floorstanders (taking juice from the Sim CDP). I am looking for a replacement (power) amp for my set up (see below - but with JMLab Electra 905s). I was impressed, and enjoyed it. It was then replaced by the Krell 300iL. Very different. At first I thought that this (pricier) amp was 'dry' and 'a bit restrained' but then felt that it was beguiling, demanding my attention and essentially drawing me into what each musician was wanting me to hear.

So I left the shop thinking that the extra grand (for the ex-dem Krell) would be worth it if I could stand that much attention seeking - when I had switched back to the Moon I-3 it seemed less demanding: musical but not so engaging, as though I was listening to a good recording rather than to the musicians.

I was taken with the Krell but it is throughly integrated and, I was told, does not allow me to use it in poweramp mode with my Dax Decade.

On leaving I was told that if I were to listen to the Sim Moon I-5, it would have the engaging character of the Krell but with the fullness of the I-3, and could be used in poweramp mode, like the I-3. I couldn't stop t listen, so that must be for another day.

but the I-5 is that much more dosh .... and the AudioLab 8000S only cost me £300!

decisions ...

 

Ditton,

Why the need for the integrated?

 

Hang on, I'm begining to think I'm telepathic, I believe you maybe about to suggest a Moon P3 possibly?, certainly would help the Dax in the drive and detail stakes for sure, indeed they do sound better when driven direct, well the one I did anyway, I was going to suggest an Evo 2, but the moon would fit in nicely

 

OK, you mean I should just look for a poweramp?

I would like to input two pre-amp'd sources. One, music, is from the Dax Decade. The other, AV surround soundtrack, is from the pre-outs from a Denon AVR2802 (the AV frontstage goes direct to three speakers that adorn the TV on the other side of the room). So I seek a poweramp that can take two imputs.

My current AudioLab 8000S is able to switch between integrated and poweramp mode, and I guess I just thought down that track. I do have a tape deck, for listening to stuff I have on that but not CD, but I guess, quality wise, I might as well run that off my AV kit.

 

and do you mean the Moon W5 or W3? rather than the P3 which seems to be a pre-amp.

I checked out

http://www.audioweb.com/Review/Revi...panyid=4923&searchtype=B&sort=M&revieworder=3

 

Why not just A to D the pre outs from the Denon and feed it to the Dac? Set the Dac to unity gain for AV and connect directly to the Power amp.

I used to do this and it works very well indeed. I was running an old MiniDisc recorder (£50 from Richers!) and feeding the digital monitor out to the Dac.

That way you will get better quality in both two channel and potentially surround too!

 

cunning plan Moriaty.

 

What's the power handling capability of the i-5s like? (70wpc rated)

I auditioned them with PMC FB1s and a red light kept blinking at high volume levels, and the dealer told me I was clipping it. However, there was no audible sign of distress.

To bad, b/c the combo was actually quite good to my ears, and Sims are cheaper in Oz than the UK.

Question for michael: when driving the i-5s into the Dyns, did the little red light in between the two gain indicators ever go on for you?

 

Does that now mean that a certain Gamut D200 might be back on your list of possibilities?

 

Michael

What's happening with the ZAP Pulse amp then?

 

Henry, I have not forgotten .. so I guess that it must be:

(new) SimAudio Moon I-5 vs (new) Moon W5 vs (s/h) Gamut D200 vs (ex-dem) Krell 300iL vs ???

as replacement for 8000S between AS Transcend/DaxDecade & JMLab Electra 905s.

[edit] I should add some extra considerations.

1. I like what the 8000S gives me, but having heard what I thought was better in a shop demo with both the SimAudio I-3 (just) and the Krell 300iL, my next move might be to home-demo these or the I-5.

2. I have some extra duties that might favour a switchable integrated/poweramp, unless I managed to think through the A->D conversion via a Minidisk & the Dax Decade:
a) analogue out from Tape Deck
b) analogue out from pre-out from AVamp, for surround purposes only
c) the possible addition of FM tuner - at present am taking digital radio from Sky+ box

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