LCR and cables

I read somewhere recently that "LCR" differences are all that affect cable sound. What is LCR and is it true?

 

Inductance, Capacitance & Resistance.

And no, it's not true!

Did a blind test with a friend who had an LCR meter - no relationship with their LCR values was found at all. And the values varied quite a lot.

Of course, if you don't 'believe' in cable sound, there can also be no relationship !

 

I see. Do you have a link to the original thread where the theory started?

 

Oh and what are JAV silver speaker cables?

 

Any audible differences in audio cables are measurable. The LCR parameters will be vastly different if anyone can reliably identify cables under controlled conditions.

Anyone who says otherwise is welcome to prove their case. No one has yet been able to do that.

 

And does Kondo KSL-SPZ have vastly different LCR parametres, Michael?

 

Never tried it - might be worth asking Richard - I think he has just bought some.

My days of wasting money on expensive cables are well behind me - I've learnt the lesson.

 

Exactly. It seems to be getting a good word or two on Wam.

 

So what LCR measurement/figures make a 'good' cable and has anyone proved that?

 

In an interlink, it is nice to have low capacitance, everyone kinda agrees on this. In loudspeaker cables, one is telling all to get low-capacitance cables (like DNM, so the amplifier has a less hard time with feedback), the other will quote low-inductance cables (for example Supra Sword) for less phase shift.

In short, it's a jungle, as both the DNM Reson and Supra Sword sound very good, but in different systems.

Always take into account where the cables will be used and between which amplifier and speakers.

 

As you can now see, for some folks this is a very contentious subject - there's really no merit getting into a "yes it does - no it doesn't" debate about whether sensibly engineered cables sound different to each other. Some folks say they hear a difference - others say they can't or that it is unproven. It goes no further than that, and I suspect it never will.

Presumably by starting the thread you think they at least might sound different.

JAV are Jay Audio Visual cables - a seller on eBay & perhaps elsewhere. I had a good 4mm solid core copper speaker cable made from Swiss Gotham wire that was well made and sounded fine and cost £20 or so - I tried the JAV silver cables (which cost considerably more ) and heard an extra level of resolution. No, I haven't tried to measure the cable nor have I done a blind test. No facetious comments required from CNBs (Cable Non-Believers) - see para 1 above. We've heard it all before.

 

Good post. I could not agree more.

I have had a definite preference for one cable over another in one system, only to have that preference reversed in another system.

"System synergy" is a major influence on the whole "cable thing" IMHO and IME.

 

That is because if you can really hear cable differences it will be the parameters of the entire loop which are influenced by the input and output impedences of the equipment as much as anything else. It's what I've said all along - totally system specific making recommendations a total waste of time.

Even if you really convince yourself you can hear a difference, you cannot repeat that from one system to another. Not really a good basis to throw loads of money at a problem that IMHO does not exist. Without wanting to start an argument, exposing yourself to testing your convictions under controlled conditions and respecting the results will in most cases get you over any cable neurosis you may have suffered from in the past - a great way of saving money long term.

 

Hi SM - I suspected you wouldn't be able to resist!

I certainly agree on the system dependence. But I would nonetheless maintain that for the most part cable sound is indeed 'transferable' between systems - even if the merits/demerits of a cable have a different outcome in different systems. It's only sometimes that I do hear random changes between systems along the lines that you present. I could give specific examples, but I doubt you'd be interested!

 

Were these examples under controlled conditions?

 

Of course not - I said you wouldn't be interested!

 

Over distance the DNM loses treble if I remember correct, so best for short runs?

I have a load of DNM interconnect for making cables with and seem to remember something about .5m being the recommended length?

Supra make their own cables and do get good reviews.

 

Then I agree they may be specific examples - but not of what you think

 

I agree that an expensive wire should be easily recognisable under controlled conditions compared to an electrically similar freebie- but only if you have two cables in the test. Many more than two cables could make identifying ones own pricey wire confusing and unfair IMO.

 

Anyway, most of the cables I have played around with have had different measurement results, quite a lot of them published by HiFi News a good number of years back.

Most of the cables I own, and feel to have slight differences are also constructed different, and I feel some slighty more suited to some electronics, the usual, Technics has soft bass and clips with difficult speakers, seems to benefit and show improvement in these areas with Naim Nac5 speaker cable, sadly treble suffers.

Thin Van Damme sounds to me, lacklustre and thin? I don't know why but the big CV's I have prefer thicker copper?

Chord Signature in my cheaper systems show little worth, with more expensive kit the subtle differences are there but at that price level value is of course questionable.
Yet I find Chord one of those cable brands which seem consistent when used in different systems.

I have Atlas Hyper and Van Damme of the same conductor Gauge, and do think the Atlas sounds slightly better and more musical. But these cables differences are not as big as DNM versus Cable Talk 3.1 versus Van Den Hul D-352.

Yet I do question the effect people imagine? I feel its a bit like the Ringmat for a turntable in most cases, a bit like cleaning the glass on a murky window.

Plenty of my cheap home made Van Damme and shark/maplins cables, and fat "fancy" Audiophool of eBay cables sit in a box, because they are easily trounced by my Chord cables, I also have DNM and Van Den hul and such sitting in boxes. I prefer Chord Chameleon Silver plus, Chorus, and Anthem interconnects.
I believe this is due to differences in cable manufacture, and Chord having safe consistent specifications which work well with a variety of kit. But I cannot prove this

How big an influence does the cable jacket/insulation or plugs have?

Will two 4mm cross section conductors with different insulation have different sound? Or should it read 'affect' on the signal or react with the electronics?