Met office stupidity

[michaelab]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3415863.stm

"We are trying to protect the Met Office trademark in the same way as Barclays Bank or HSBC would protect their image", the MoD spokesman said.

"We just do not want to go and have people trade off our reputation."

That's the UK Met Office talking about the New York Mets using "their" name. Now, I wonder which is the more well known of the two (even in England)?

Michael.

 

[ilockyer]

How pathetic. What's the point in the Met Office objecting? It's not as though they're about to launch a load of Met Office merchandise with the word Met on it, no-one would buy it if they did. Stranger things have happened though.

I'm sure Dom will have something to say about it if he reads it.

 

[tones]

From a specialist point of view, I can't say a lot (professional etiquette and stuff like that), but I can't see the Met (Office) having much of a chance. It depends largely in respect of which goods and services the baseball club registered its mark (trade marks are alwas registered in respect of particular good and services, and the article doesn't say what), so the owner of MET for, say, beer, could not stop the owner of MET for, say, paint, registering his mark. Only in the case of VERY famous trade marks (SHELL, COCA-COLA) could you stop someone in a different field.

If the marks were in the same class (e.g. Class 16 stationery and printed matter) the Met Office might have an argument. However, use by the New York Mets would hardly be liable to deceive or cause confusion among the public.

 

[GrahamN]

It looks to me as if the problem is here:

"The New York Mets applied to use 'Met' as a trademark and not just for sporting purposes but as a blanket application."

which would seem to open a degree of overlap.

Not sure if precedence has any relevance, but IIRC "The Met Office" is only fairly recent - 15 yrs or so - as I always used to refer to "The Meteorological Office" when I was a yoof, whereas "the Mets" go way back.

And why is there no outcry from "THE Met" (i.e. the Metropolitan Opera). No disrespect to the NY Mets' rendering of their team song (I assume they have one), or even 'the Weather Girls', but they're not quite in the same league

 

[tones]

Originally posted by GrahamN
"The New York Mets applied to use 'Met' as a trademark and not just for sporting purposes but as a blanket application."

which would seem to open a degree of overlap.

Yes, but they still have to apply in particular classes, Graham. Few are the applicants who apply in all 45 goods and services classes.

I actually had a quick peep at the Trade Marks Office's website. There are lots of MET marks - including the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company (only in one relevant class). I didn't see any Met Office mark, but there was a Community Trade Mark Application in quite a number of classes by the Ministry of Defence - is the Met Office part of the MoD?

 

[tones]

So, there are two Met Office Community Trade Mark applications, one word, one logo, in respect of identical goods - what they look like is shown below. Given the classes, I could imagine the baseball folk being interested in classes 16, 25, 28, 38 and 41, hence the problems. (Note that both have been opposed):

00191228 * TRADEMARK IMAGE AVAILABLE *
MET OFFICE and design
REGISTER: COMMUNITY TRADEMARKS
INTL CLASS: 9 (Electrical and scientific apparatus)
16 (Paper goods and printed matter)
25 (Clothing)
28 (Toys and sporting goods)
35 (Advertising and business services)
36 (Insurance and financial services)
38 (Communications services)
41 (Education and entertainment services)
42 (Miscellaneous service marks)
STATUS: APPLICATION (Pending)
STATUS ACCORDING TO NATIONAL PTO: OPPOSITION PENDING
GOODS/SERVICES:


<ENGLISH> 09 ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS BEING DIGITAL OR
ELECTRONIC REPRODUCTIONS OF DATA, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND TICKETS;
OPTICAL AND SCIENTIFIC APPARATUS, DEVICES AND INSTRUMENTS;
COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE; COMPUTER DATABASES; COMPUTER DISCS;
CD-ROMS; DVDS; LASER DISCS; DIGITAL DISCS; VIDEO AND AUDIO
TAPES AND CASSETTES; COMPACT DISCS; COMPUTER GRAPHICS SOFTWARE;
AUDIO VISUAL PUBLICATIONS OFFERED ONLINE FROM DATABASES OR FROM
WEB SITES; MOUSE MATS; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL THE AFORESAID
GOODS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 09. 16 PAPER AND PAPER ARTICLES;
CARDBOARD AND CARDBOARD ARTICLES; PRINTED DATA, GRAPHIC IMAGES
AND TICKETS; STATIONERY, ENVELOPES, BAGS, LABELS, TAGS; PRINTED
MATTER; NEWSLETTERS, MAGAZINES, PAMPHLETS, PERIODICALS; WRITING
INSTRUMENTS, PENS, PENCILS, PAPER CLIPS, PAPERWEIGHTS;
COASTERS; PLAYING CARDS; MAPS, POSTERS, POSTCARDS, PHOTOGRAPHS,
PRINTS, DIARIES AND CALENDARS; TEACHING, EDUCATIONAL, TRAINING
AND INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIAL; TRAINING GUIDES; DRAWINGS, SURVEYS,
CHARTS; MANUALS, BROCHURES, CATALOGUES AND ADVERTISING
MATERIAL; PUBLICATIONS; FLAGS; STICKERS; PLASTIC BAGS;
CERTIFICATES; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL THE AFORESAID GOODS;
ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 16. 25 ARTICLES OF OUTER CLOTHING;
SHIRTS, COATS, JACKETS, TROUSERS, SWEATSHIRTS; JEANS; T-SHIRTS;
VESTS, SHORTS; SKIRTS, BLOUSES; OVERCOATS; RAINWEAR, WATERPROOF
CLOTHING; SWEATERS, PULLOVERS, CARDIGANS; TIES, BELTS, SCARVES;
SPORTS CLOTHING; FOOTWEAR; SHOES, BOOTS; BOOTS FOR SPORTS;
CAPS, HATS, HEADGEAR; SOCKS; GLOVES; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL
THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 25. 28 TOYS, GAMES
AND PLAYTHINGS; SOFT TOYS; DOLLS; FIGURINES; ELECTRONIC TOYS
AND GAMES MACHINES; SOUVENIRS; PLAYING BALLS, BALLOONS,
PUZZLES, TOY MODELS AND KITES; JIGSAW PUZZLES; BOARD GAMES;
COMPUTER GAMES; TOY ACTION FIGURES; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL
THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 28. 35 SUPPLY OF
BUSINESS SERVICES TO THE PRESS, NEWS PAPERS, TELEVISION, RADIO
AND OTHER BROADCAST ORGANISATIONS AND INFORMATION AS RESULTS OF
SUCH ACTIVITY; ADVERTISING, MARKETING AND PROMOTION; PROVISION
OF BUSINESS ADVICE TO BUSINESSES AND SPORTING ORGANISATIONS;
ORGANISATION OF AND ARRANGING EXHIBITIONS; BUSINESS AND PROJECT
MANAGEMENT SERVICES; COMPILATION AND STORAGE OF INFORMATION,
PROVISION OF BUSINESS MATERIAL IN THE FORM OF REPORTS;
COLLECTION, STORAGE AND PROCESSING OF CUSTOMER REQUIREMENTS AND
DATA; PUBLIC RELATIONS SERVICES; INTERNET ADVERTISING;
COLLECTION, STORAGE OF DATA AND AUDIO VISUAL IMAGES BY
ELECTRONIC, SATELLITE, CABLE, FACSIMILE AND COMPUTING MEANS;
COMPILATION, STORAGE, ANALYSIS, RETRIEVAL AND PROCESSING OF
DATA, AUDIO VISUAL INFORMATION, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND REPORTS; ON
LINE INFORMATION RETRIEVAL SERVICES; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 35.
36 PROVISION OF CONSULTANCY INFORMATION TO THE INSURANCE,
BANKING AND FINANCIAL SECTORS. 38 ELECTRONIC MAIL AND
TELECOMMUNICATION SERVICES; TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION OF
DATA AND AUDIO VISUAL IMAGES BY ELECTRONIC, SATELLITE, CABLE,
FACSIMILE AND COMPUTING MEANS; TRANSMISSION OF PAGE READY PRESS
SERVICES VIA ISDN AND MODEM; ACCESS AND LINK TO THE INTERNET;
LINK TO DATABASES; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 38 41 TRAINING
SERVICES; TRAINING WEATHER PRESENTERS; ARRANGING AND CONDUCTING
TRAINING COURSES, CONFERENCES, SEMINARS AND SYMPOSIUMS;
PROVISION OF TRAINING FACILITIES; PROVISION OF TELEVISION
WEATHER SERVICES AND PROGRAMMES; PROVISION OF AUDIO VISUAL
SPECIAL EFFECTS; MUSEUM FACILITIES; PROVISION OF EDUCATIONAL
INFORMATION IN THE FORM OF REPORTS, CHARTS, GRAPHS, PREDICTIONS
AND STATISTICAL ANALYSIS; PUBLISHING OF DATA, AUDIO VISUAL
INFORMATION, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND REPORTS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS
41. 42 SCIENTIFIC, ENVIRONMENTAL, CLIMATIC RESEARCH AND
DEVELOPMENT, MONITORING, MAPPING, INTERPRETING, PREDICTING,
COMPUTER MODELLING AND FORECASTING SERVICES; CONSULTING
SERVICES; SUPPLY OF WEATHER DATA AND WEATHER FORECASTS; DESIGN
AND TECHNICAL CALIBRATION OF INSTRUMENTS AND SYSTEMS; GRAPHIC
DESIGN; RADIO, TELEVISION AND NEWSPAPER WEATHER FORECASTS;
DESIGN OF WEB PAGES; CREATION AND MAINTENANCE OF WEB SITES;
DESIGN AND MAINTENANCE OF SOFTWARE AND DOCUMENTATION; COPYRIGHT
MANAGEMENT AND LICENSING; TELEPHONE HELP LINE SERVICES; DESIGN
OF WEB PAGES; ACCESS TO DATABASES; SUPPLY OF ANALYTICAL
SERVICES TO THE PRESS, NEWS PAPERS, TELEVISION, RADIO AND OTHER
BROADCAST ORGANISATIONS; PREPARE AND FORMAT TO CUSTOMER'S
REQUIREMENT PAGE READY PRESS SERVICES VIA ISDN AND MODEM; ALL
INCLUDED IN CLASS 42.
GOODS/SERVICES TRANSLATIONS: 09 ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS BEING
DIGITAL OR ELECTRONIC REPRODUCTIONS OF DATA, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND
TICKETS; OPTICAL AND SCIENTIFIC APPARATUS, DEVICES AND
INSTRUMENTS; COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE; COMPUTER DATABASES;
COMPUTER DISCS; CD-ROMS; DVDS; LASER DISCS; DIGITAL DISCS;
VIDEO AND AUDIO TAPES AND CASSETTES; COMPACT DISCS; COMPUTER
GRAPHICS SOFTWARE; AUDIO VISUAL PUBLICATIONS OFFERED ONLINE
FROM DATABASES OR FROM WEB SITES; MOUSE MATS; PARTS AND
FITTINGS FOR ALL THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 09.
16 PAPER AND PAPER ARTICLES; CARDBOARD AND CARDBOARD ARTICLES;
PRINTED DATA, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND TICKETS; STATIONERY,
ENVELOPES, BAGS, LABELS, TAGS; PRINTED MATTER; NEWSLETTERS,
MAGAZINES, PAMPHLETS, PERIODICALS; WRITING INSTRUMENTS, PENS,
PENCILS, PAPER CLIPS, PAPERWEIGHTS; COASTERS; PLAYING CARDS;
MAPS, POSTERS, POSTCARDS, PHOTOGRAPHS, PRINTS, DIARIES AND
CALENDARS; TEACHING, EDUCATIONAL, TRAINING AND INSTRUCTIONAL
MATERIAL; TRAINING GUIDES; DRAWINGS, SURVEYS, CHARTS; MANUALS,
BROCHURES, CATALOGUES AND ADVERTISING MATERIAL; PUBLICATIONS;
FLAGS; STICKERS; PLASTIC BAGS; CERTIFICATES; PARTS AND FITTINGS
FOR ALL THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 16. 25
ARTICLES OF OUTER CLOTHING; SHIRTS, COATS, JACKETS, TROUSERS,
SWEATSHIRTS; JEANS; T-SHIRTS; VESTS, SHORTS; SKIRTS, BLOUSES;
OVERCOATS; RAINWEAR, WATERPROOF CLOTHING; SWEATERS, PULLOVERS,
CARDIGANS; TIES, BELTS, SCARVES; SPORTS CLOTHING; FOOTWEAR;
SHOES, BOOTS; BOOTS FOR SPORTS; CAPS, HATS, HEADGEAR; SOCKS;
GLOVES; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL
INCLUDED IN CLASS 25. 28 TOYS, GAMES AND PLAYTHINGS; SOFT
TOYS; DOLLS; FIGURINES; ELECTRONIC TOYS AND GAMES MACHINES;
SOUVENIRS; PLAYING BALLS, BALLOONS, PUZZLES, TOY MODELS AND
KITES; JIGSAW PUZZLES; BOARD GAMES; COMPUTER GAMES; TOY ACTION
FIGURES; PARTS AND FITTINGS FOR ALL THE AFORESAID GOODS; ALL
INCLUDED IN CLASS 28. 35 SUPPLY OF BUSINESS SERVICES TO THE
PRESS, NEWS PAPERS, TELEVISION, RADIO AND OTHER BROADCAST
ORGANISATIONS AND INFORMATION AS RESULTS OF SUCH ACTIVITY;
ADVERTISING, MARKETING AND PROMOTION; PROVISION OF BUSINESS
ADVICE TO BUSINESSES AND SPORTING ORGANISATIONS; ORGANISATION
OF AND ARRANGING EXHIBITIONS; BUSINESS AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT
SERVICES; COMPILATION AND STORAGE OF INFORMATION, PROVISION OF
BUSINESS MATERIAL IN THE FORM OF REPORTS; COLLECTION, STORAGE
AND PROCESSING OF CUSTOMER REQUIREMENTS AND DATA; PUBLIC
RELATIONS SERVICES; INTERNET ADVERTISING; COLLECTION, STORAGE
OF DATA AND AUDIO VISUAL IMAGES BY ELECTRONIC, SATELLITE,
CABLE, FACSIMILE AND COMPUTING MEANS; COMPILATION, STORAGE,
ANALYSIS, RETRIEVAL AND PROCESSING OF DATA, AUDIO VISUAL
INFORMATION, GRAPHIC IMAGES AND REPORTS; ON LINE INFORMATION
RETRIEVAL SERVICES; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 35. 36 PROVISION OF
CONSULTANCY INFORMATION TO THE INSURANCE, BANKING AND FINANCIAL
SECTORS. 38 ELECTRONIC MAIL AND TELECOMMUNICATION SERVICES;
TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION OF DATA AND AUDIO VISUAL IMAGES
BY ELECTRONIC, SATELLITE, CABLE, FACSIMILE AND COMPUTING MEANS;
TRANSMISSION OF PAGE READY PRESS SERVICES VIA ISDN AND MODEM;
ACCESS AND LINK TO THE INTERNET; LINK TO DATABASES; ALL
INCLUDED IN CLASS 38 41 TRAINING SERVICES; TRAINING WEATHER
PRESENTERS; ARRANGING AND CONDUCTING TRAINING COURSES,
CONFERENCES, SEMINARS AND SYMPOSIUMS; PROVISION OF TRAINING
FACILITIES; PROVISION OF TELEVISION WEATHER SERVICES AND
PROGRAMMES; PROVISION OF AUDIO VISUAL SPECIAL EFFECTS; MUSEUM
FACILITIES; PROVISION OF EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION IN THE FORM OF
REPORTS, CHARTS, GRAPHS, PREDICTIONS AND STATISTICAL ANALYSIS;
PUBLISHING OF DATA, AUDIO VISUAL INFORMATION, GRAPHIC IMAGES
AND REPORTS; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 41. 42 SCIENTIFIC,
ENVIRONMENTAL, CLIMATIC RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, MONITORING,
MAPPING, INTERPRETING, PREDICTING, COMPUTER MODELLING AND
FORECASTING SERVICES; CONSULTING SERVICES; SUPPLY OF WEATHER
DATA AND WEATHER FORECASTS; DESIGN AND TECHNICAL CALIBRATION OF
INSTRUMENTS AND SYSTEMS; GRAPHIC DESIGN; RADIO, TELEVISION AND
NEWSPAPER WEATHER FORECASTS; DESIGN OF WEB PAGES; CREATION AND
MAINTENANCE OF WEB SITES; DESIGN AND MAINTENANCE OF SOFTWARE
AND DOCUMENTATION; COPYRIGHT MANAGEMENT AND LICENSING;
TELEPHONE HELP LINE SERVICES; DESIGN OF WEB PAGES; ACCESS TO
DATABASES; SUPPLY OF ANALYTICAL SERVICES TO THE PRESS, NEWS
PAPERS, TELEVISION, RADIO AND OTHER BROADCAST ORGANISATIONS;
PREPARE AND FORMAT TO CUSTOMER'S REQUIREMENT PAGE READY PRESS
SERVICES VIA ISDN AND MODEM; ALL INCLUDED IN CLASS 42.
LANGUAGE: ENGLISH (Language of the application);FRENCH (Second
language)
APPLICATION NUMBER: 1908128
APPLICATION DATE: 18 October 2000 (October 18, 2000)
LAST FULL PUBLICATION: 01 July 2002 (July 1, 2002)
PUBLISHED IN: CTMB 51 page 135
EXPIRATION DATE: 18 October 2010 (October 18, 2010)
DURATION: 10 YEARS
PRIORITY:
Country: GB (UNITED KINGDOM)
Date: June 14, 2000
Number: 2235927
LINING/COLOR CLAIMS: <SP>Verde y azul<IT>Verde e blu<EN>Green
and blue<FR>Vert et bleu<GR>GREEK NOT SUPPORTED<GE>Gruen und
blau<DA>Gron og bla<DU>Groen en blauw<PO>Verde e
azul<FI>Vihreae ja sininen<SW>Groent och blatt
DESIGN PHRASE: <SP>La marca contiene un distintivo en Verde y
Azul con las palabras Met Office.<IT>Il marchio contiene un
disegno verde e blu con le parole Met Office.<EN>Mark contains
a Device in Green and Blue with the words Met Office.<FR>La
marque contient un logo vert et bleus accompagne des mots Met
Office.<GR>GREEK NOT SUPPORTED<GE>die Marke enthaelt ein
gruenes und blaues Zeichen mit den Worten Met
Office.<DA>Varemaerket indeholder et maerke i gront og blat med
ordene Met Office.<DU>Het merk bevat een figuur in groen en
blauw met de woorden Met Office.<PO>A marca contem um desenho a
verde e azul com as palavras Met Office.<FI>Merkki koostuu
vihreaesinisestae kuviosta, jossa on teksti Met
Office.<SW>Maerket innehaller en figur i groent och blatt med
orden Met Office.
VIENNA CODES: 261103; 261113
CM DESIGN CODES: 260412; 261113; 261103; 260401
LAST REPORTED OWNER(S): The Secretary of State for Defence,
Whitehall,London, SW1A 2HB, GB (UNITED KINGDOM)
AGENT: Robert William Beckham, Poplar 2 MOD Abbey Wood,Bristol,
BS34 8JH, GB (UNITED KINGDOM)
HISTORICAL INFORMATION:
PUBLICATION OF APPLICATION:
CTMB Volume 51 page 135 dated 1 July 2002


1/5/19
DIALOG(R)File 227:TRADEMARKSCAN(R)- Community Tmks
(c) 2004 Compu-Mark N.V. All rts. reserv.

00083084
MET
REGISTER: COMMUNITY TRADEMARKS
INTL CLASS: 9 (Electrical and scientific apparatus)
16 (Paper goods and printed matter)
25 (Clothing)
28 (Toys and sporting goods)
35 (Advertising and business services)
36 (Insurance and financial services)
38 (Communications services)
42 (Miscellaneous service marks)
STATUS: APPLICATION (Pending)
STATUS ACCORDING TO NATIONAL PTO: OPPOSITION PENDING

 

[domfjbrown]

Well, Microslop couldn't trademark "95" could they?

"I met(TM) up with some friends(TM) back in 1995(TM)"

It's a bag of old arse really - we get confused with the Met Police all the time, but who the hell gives a **** if some second rate sports team wants to use the (common word!) name?

BTW - at least our new logo doesn't look like it was "designed" by a 2 year old, even if it DOES ming. Bye bye cockeral; now - how long did it take us to get the BBC to acknowledge us on their forecasts hey?

Believe it or not, we still have the best national weather service out of anyone in the world - certainly better than the Yanks' one by far

He he he - you should see what some of our more "radical" staff have said on our internal newsgroups - someone suggested rebranding back to the "Meteorological Office" or even UKMO - I think that sounds best out of all of the options to be honest

Being a "Trading fund" and having the worst aspects of private and public working, with little of the advantages of either, might be awkward a lot of the time, but it's kind of cool working for somewhere that's on telly every day.

Pity I can't use the most common English conversation starter without talking shop though

 

[tones]

Originally posted by domfjbrown
Well, Microslop couldn't trademark "95" could they?

Nobody can - with very few exceptions, you can't register numbers, because they're not distinctive. One of the most enduring myths is that Peugeot has registered all three-digit numbers with a zero in the middle. Wrong - Peugeot does register the numbers of the individual cars, but only with the word "Peugeot" with the number. The number alone is not distinctive.

One famous exception; 4711. When the French Army of Napoleon occupied Cologne, they numbered all the houses sequentially in the then French military fashion. The little perfumery at Glockengasse 9 received the completely unmemorable 4711, and has never looked back.

 

[Dev]

Originally posted by tones
Nobody can - with very few exceptions, you can't register numbers, because they're not distinctive. One of the most enduring myths is that Peugeot has registered all three-digit numbers with a zero in the middle. Wrong - Peugeot does register the numbers of the individual cars, but only with the word "Peugeot" with the number. The number alone is not distinctive.

Hi Tones,

Then how did Peugeot manage to stop Porsche using number 901 in the US? I understand the original designation for 911 was 901 but Peugeot had already registered all 3 digit numbers with a zero in the middle in the US, thus forcing Porsche to use 911.

Or is it all bollox?

 

[michaelab]

I'm with Dev on that one. Early examples of the Porsche 911 still have the 901 code on the engine, it was definitely what they wanted to call it. I've read the Peugeot explanation in just about every text on the 911 I've ever read so I'd be surprised if it were a myth...

Michael.

 

[penance]

didnt intel try to TM the letter 'I' ?

 

[tones]

Originally posted by michaelab
I'm with Dev on that one. Early examples of the Porsche 911 still have the 901 code on the engine, it was definitely what they wanted to call it. I've read the Peugeot explanation in just about every text on the 911 I've ever read so I'd be surprised if it were a myth...

Michael.

I guess I should have mentioned that, as in many other things, the US is a bit different from other places! Yes, it is easier to get registration of a number in the USA (at the moment, Bose has "901" registered there!). However, I'm suspicious of the story because of the following:

1. The USA has the strictest use requirements on the planet - when you apply for registration, you can do it on "intent to use". This will get you to allowance and past the opposition period - but the USPTO will NOT register the mark until you prove use - and you must provide samples of actual use (labels, etc.). Moreover, you have to provide proof of usage 6 years after registration AND at every renewal of registration.

2. Back in those days, it was even worse (and I remember this from personal experience). The USPTO would not even permit an application for registration unless the mark was in use somewhere in the world - proof required, of course. Now, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Peugeot 901, so how could they get it registered?

So, there's something clearly not quite right about the story, which doesn't surprise me, given the tosh I sometimes hear about patents and trade marks.

I suspect something like the following may have occurred (pure hypothesis on my part, but this is the way trade marks people think): Porsche had already made cars with "90x" numbers, but these were out-and-out racing cars (the 904, and later the 908). However, for a road car, Porsche may have thought that the possibility of confusion with Peugeot names in the USA (both funny foreign words starting with "P" and followed by a number with a zero in the middle) would be too great, so it changed the number.

But you've caught my interest - I must have a dig in the depths of the USPTO's website sometime and I'll report back.

 

[tones]

Originally posted by penance
didnt intel try to TM the letter 'I' ?

Presumably I in a special form? Nobody can monopolise single letters per se - and the registrations come with the disclaimer "registration shall give no right to the exclusive use of the letter "i" except in the form as shown". Small groups of letter are also hard - even IBM had to struggle and only finally made it by presenting massive evidence of distinctiveness (in the form of sworn declarations to the effect that when people heard "IBM" in relation to computers, they thought of THAT IBM, and no other.

Surnames are impossible to register, unless they're very rare, or in a special form (and before you ask, McDONALD'S is the registered mark, not McDONALD, no doubt with several truckloads of evidence of use). Sweden will not register a surname, even if only one person has it and you have his or her permission.

 

[penance]

i think it was the letter I itself, from what i remember they were told fairly smartish to get a grip

Wasnt there a case with MS a year or 2 ago when they tried to stop a company useing Lindows?

 

[tones]

Originally posted by penance
Wasnt there a case with MS a year or 2 ago when they tried to stop a company useing Lindows?

Not only 2 years ago, but current. The case comes up for hearing in March this year, I think. It should have been heard some time ago, but there was some initial courtroom skirmishing, won by Lindows.

It'll be an interesting one. The question is, as always, will the use of this mark on these goods cause deception or confusion of the public to whom the goods are directed? It's more a deceptive trade practices case, rather than a straight-out trade marks case, with a bit of "passing off" as in British common law. Trade marks infringement is always a better bet, if you can get it, because the onus of proof falls on the alleged infringer to prove that s/he didn't infringe.

 

[HenryT]

Originally posted by penance
didnt intel try to TM the letter 'I' ?

Not sure, but wasn't it the case that they wanted to trademark the model names/numbers of their CPUs i.e. 80286, 80386, 80486.

 

[tones]

Perhaps, Henry, but they didn't get them, either in the UK or the USA (just had a look at the records).

 

[Dev]

Originally posted by HenryT
Not sure, but wasn't it the case that they wanted to trademark the model names/numbers of their CPUs i.e. 80286, 80386, 80486.

I think you're right Henry. Intel tried to trademark 586 for the 486 replacement and decided to use the name Pentium when they failed.

Edit- drat, beaten by Tones.

 

[tones]

Originally posted by michaelab
I'm with Dev on that one. Early examples of the Porsche 911 still have the 901 code on the engine, it was definitely what they wanted to call it. I've read the Peugeot explanation in just about every text on the 911 I've ever read so I'd be surprised if it were a myth...

Michael.

Michael, now I'm very suspicious about the story! I found no record in the USPTO Register of a registration or even an application of "901" in the name of Automobiles Peugeot S.A. The earliest registration of "901" is in the early '70s by the Bose Corporation.

 

[HenryT]

Originally posted by tones
Perhaps, Henry, but they didn't get them, either in the UK or the USA (just had a look at the records).

Oh OK! How about complete words like "Intel 80486"? Can that be trademarked, because I've often seen "Intel 80386 (TM)" or "Intel 80486 (TM)" credited in computer related manuals or technical documents I've used at work in the past.