More Vinyl Newbie questions

Ok, got my first turntable the other day, a 2nd hand project Xpression with an ortofon MC-15 and a project phone box SE.

So far.... not sure really, some things sound quite good and occasionally very good, better than their CD equivalents.

But having a problem when things get loud... I'm getting quite bad distortion, especially noticeable in classical music during orchestral climaxes with strings or female voices.

In pop/rock records, I'm getting similar effect at loud points.

I've checked the tracking weight, and attempted to do my best with an alignment protractor to adjust the tracking angle, and all seems Ok there.

Its entirely possible that the distortion is present on the recordings (though they are not on the CD quivalent of at least one of recordings - Dvorak 8th/Kubelik/BPO on DG) or on damaged record surfaces. But still getting this sometimes even on brand new records, eg Interpol's Antics.

Any suggestions?

Also.. what is the best way to remove static? I'm using a carbon fibre brush on the LPs before playing , but getting a lot of minor clicks and pops. Thanks.

 

There is a possibility its on the vinyl if they have previously been played with a badly worn and/or misaligned cartridge. What's the history of said vinyl?

If the cartridge alignment and tracking weight are good then another possibility is the stylus is on its way out - any idea of its history?

The fact that its happening on new vinyl suggests the latter to me. That said you do occasionally get mispressed records (the new Kate Bush being a case in point - loads of people reporting problems with it) or badly mastered records which are too hot and cause mistracking.

Re Static. If static is the issue, carbon fibre brushes are actually quite good, the Zerostat pistol is also quite effective and there are various cleaning solutions with antistatic properties. Using antistatic sleeeves also helps.

Clicks and pops aren't necessarily static though - unfortunately it may point to the cartridge again.

 

It does sound like a dodgy cart. How confident are you that it is all aligned properly? I've only ever had that problem on seriously worn vinyl.
Your best bet to totally eliminate static is to make friends with someone with a record cleaner. If not the carbon fibre brush is a very good start as is the Milty Zerostat.

 

yep I'd agree with the comments too....

 

Hm, well I get that too so if you figure it out let me know! It's my only gripe with my current vinyl setup - one I hope to cure with a cartridge upgrade in the nearish future. No amount of realigning/re-weighting seems to cure (or even greatly affect) it.

Is it possible it's just a case of cheap-cartridge-itis..? I mean the MC15 is £100+ and my Sumiko was £130, so not actually cheap, but compared to audiophile MC carts they're quite cheap. I bought mine new, but it's had about 9 months' frequent use now so I suppose that won't help (can't remember if it was less of an issue to start with...)

Would greatly appreciate fellow MC-15 and/or Sumiko Blue Point owners relating whether they've had similar probs, and whether cart a upgrade solved it...

Dunc

 

No not really - if it occurs quite a lot then its either a bad setup (misalignment most likely), a duff stylus or knackered vinyl. Even cheapy carts can track well enough that you only get this on some really trying records and then only rarely. Misalignment is the likely culprit if it mainly starts to get noticable on the inner grooves, especially of records which are overly long. Though that's also where any appreciable wear is likely to be found as well.

 

In addition to all suggestions made re set-up so far, it's probably worth checking the bias/anti-skate settings, too.

 

True - or way too low downforce.

 

How is bias adjusted?

re anti-skate.... this I assume is just which rung on the rod the ant-skate weight is connected to? Thanks everyone so far.

TBH I think I need to get a demo of a really good vinyl setup to see if I can still detect problems on some of these recordings.

 

Bias and anti-skate are the same thing, just sometimes referred to as one thing rather than the other, and, yes, on a Project arm I think the adjustments are made using the different rungs on the rod on the side of the main arm pillar.

I found this article very useful when I was first installing a cartridge, as it gives a bit of background as to what each bit does, so it may be of use to you, too:

http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm

Good luck with it,

Chris.

 

Alan, no-one has mentioned the phono stage yet. Assuming you've followed the advice so far and the basics of cartridge set-up, tracking etc. are okay and assuming the arm can handle the energy of the music (and I assume all of this is competent enough) then I would seriously look at the phono stage.

I have used a fair few in my time and (mostly on pfm) folks will know I'm a fan of the EAR 834P that I use. I'm not suggesting it's the last word in phonos at any price nor that it's the right kind of phono for your budget and system but the problem you describe hit home sharply when I started using my Deluxe (as I say, this is a £1K phono so not apples and apples comparison). For years, I assumed that I might one day convert a number of classical albums into something playable when I had a truly esoteric arm or cartridge. I learned that a lot of phonos simply seem to saturate and display the problem you're experiencing. The 834P is one example of a phono that cuts through a lot of that. Sure other items in my system help but it's a key contribution to the way my system plays classical these days and it is worth you exploring the phono avenue amongst your investigations.

 

Paul,

Hmm. Well the Phonobox SE isn't the last word either ... but I never heard one with the issues Alan's describing Unless the dips are set all wrong ...

Alan, there are some dip switches on the bottom of the SE have you checked they are set correctly. For the MC15 you need to set them for MC and 100Ohm (though you could experiment with 220). I doubt that's it though

If you haven't got a manual for the Phonobox SE, you'll find a PDF here:

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/en/manual/manual_phonoboxse.pdf

 

Yep - the switches are set for MC 100ohms. Will try lowering the anti-skating force. Tracking weight is set to 2.0g but I will also try increasing this to 2.2g which is the upper limit for this cart I believe.

 

If I'm talking cock, I' happy to told so. But if you wanted to test the saturation theory you could try setting it for MM. It'll be very quiet and you'll need to crank the volume, it will probably sound a bit wrong too, but of your distortion on loud passages issue remains, then the finger points squarely at the front end.

 

Uncle, do you listen to a lot of classical? Twenty+ years of it has left far too many phono stages wanting with it. Only obvious when you hear one that isn't. I also added that my point assumed all else was checked first.

 

Its not a part of my regular musical diet, but I do have a fair selection and listen to it reasonably often - for testing how well cartridges track usually. Whilst I won't argue that its not more challenging to a system than a lot of non classical material, the issue Alan seems to be having seems to be one of obvious, regular and frequent distortion (and not just affecting classical either).

 

I remember some time back a few folk commenting that the instructions for adjusting the downforce on the expression were a bit confusing. I know I had this problem myself with the expression. Something to do with whether you turn it clockwise as you look face on at the dial or something. If the weight moves towards the pivot then the downforce is increasing. Might be worthwhile double checking this as it sounds like it may be too little downforce. I use an OMB30 with my turntable and with clean records it sounds just fine.

 

Its not just classical recordings. Also tried setting the phonobox to MM setting and its still present.

The worst example was towards the end of side one of Interpol's Antics, where distortion was almost constant on the right hand channel... but maybe this is in the recording or the pressing?

However, reducing the anti-skate weigthing has made a definite improvement, and the aforementioned Dvorak 8th is now listenable. Another classical recording I tried before adjusting the anti-skate was particularly bothersome so will try it again tonight.

P.S. I am using digital scales to measure downforce - tried it at 2.2g but sound seemed a little closed in and dull. I prefer it at 2.0g.

 

it sounds like your cartridge isn't tracking the bottom of the groove, instead its pushed against the side of the groove.

it's either a setup issue, or the cartridge is knackered.

Could a local dealer lend you a cartridge to see?

I'd do something quickly, or you will mangle your vinyl

 

Lol - here's a suggestion: Have you got the correct mains transformers going into each component? The phonobox & expression wall warts look quite similar and its easy to get them mixed up. They're both 16V, but have very different amperage - might explain things!

Rgds,
DT