nasty vinyl

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by Heavymental, May 19, 2004.

  1. Heavymental

    Heavymental

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    I have recently acquired Out of Our Heads by the Stones on original vinyl. Not so long ago I also got the first stones LP on vinyl…the name escapes me at the moment. Anyway these LPs just sound crap on my system. The sound is thin and really treble heavy, pretty unpleasant to listen to really. The records are in good/excellent condition so I wonder what the problem is. Obviously I don't have this problem with other records so is it just the age of these in particular that's causing the nastiness?
     
    Heavymental, May 19, 2004
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  2. Heavymental

    Uncle Ants In Recordeo Speramus

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    I have both of these and they both sound really nasty too. I think its just the recordings. Funnily enough though, I also have a copy of Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass), released a few years later with some of the same stuff on it and it sounds great. Bad mastering I'd guess.
     
    Uncle Ants, May 19, 2004
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  3. Heavymental

    Heavymental

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    Seems a bit odd that anyone would release an album sounding like that, you would have thought they'd have been pretty disappointed to put that out on the shelf. Ah well, guess I'll just keep them as nice collectors items rather than albums to play, which is a bit of a shame. No doubt they are available on digitally remastered cd now.
     
    Heavymental, May 19, 2004
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  4. Heavymental

    tones compulsive cantater

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    You should always remember the basic rule of record production in them thar days. If it was a classical LP, no more than about 400 LPs were pressed off a given stamper (in the case of Telefunken, it was only 100). If, however, it was pop/rock, they stamped LPs until the ridges wore off - pop/rock fans were considered a less discriminating audience (self-evidently true, I would say :D ), so the companies didn't worry. So, if your LP was pressed at the beginning of a run, you got an excellent pressing. However, if your pressing was preceded by 50 zillion others, it could be prety dire.
     
    tones, May 19, 2004
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  5. Heavymental

    Heavymental

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    Ah right…and presumably theres not much chance of spotting a good pressing from a bad pressing by sight alone so it's a bit of a gamble? Or is there a tip for spotting a bad pressing?
     
    Heavymental, May 19, 2004
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  6. Heavymental

    tones compulsive cantater

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    My only advice would be to buy classical, but that wouldn't help! No, sorry, I don't know any way of distinguishing visually a good pressing from a bad one.

    I used to run across the same problem with the old World Record Club in Australia. Frequently their stuff wasn't that brilliant. I complained, but was told that there was "no cheap way to make a record" - which was true of course, but the unanswered question was, how many records? I suspect that, to keep the costs down, WRC pressed more than it really should have, so the chances of a not-so-good pressing were higher.
     
    tones, May 19, 2004
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  7. Heavymental

    Uncle Ants In Recordeo Speramus

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    Actually I suspect its more a case of they couldn't give a damn - or more accurately, they could but not about folks listening on half way decent kit - I think the problem's "in the mix" so to speak.

    Most people buying into the Stones at the time were probably listening on a Dansette or similar. Loog Oldham almost certainly had something to do with it - I know he made a lot of production and mastering decisions purely on the basis of "will this sound good on AM radio?" and its probable the recordings simply reflect that - at least that's what he he says in 2Stoned. Also he was a bit of Phil Spector accolyte. In other words I think (unfortunately) they are supposed to be like that. Other Decca pressings of the period I have aren't too hot either though.

    They do actually sound a lot better on my Dansette than on my proper system :) Lots of fake bass when you shut the lid ;)

    It isn't always the case for Pop of the period mind - Beatles pressings on Parlophone are pretty damned good if you are lucky enough to get hold of a Yellow and Black label- with the possible exception of their first. Revolver is particularly good. Original Columbia pressings of that era are generally excellent (I've got quite a few Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash and Simon and Garfunkels from then) - not uniformly so though, early Byrds recordings on CBS are a bit stinky, but then listen to Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and its lovely.
     
    Uncle Ants, May 19, 2004
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  8. Heavymental

    Uncle Ants In Recordeo Speramus

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    Just noticed the comment re CDs. Word of warning - The old CD remasters of all the early stones generally stink to high heaven - which is one reason why I think its a problem with the mix rather than a pressing problem.

    Have heard though that the new SACD remasters (and presumably the CD version that comes with them) are a major improvement.
     
    Uncle Ants, May 19, 2004
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  9. Heavymental

    Heavymental

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    I see. That's a real shame as I was looking forward to sitting down and listening to them, I'm glad I didn't pay the 30 odd quid list price for these as I'm not going to be putting them on again in a hurry. Sounds like the sound men really screwed up in getting a piece of history onto a format in those days. Suppose they didn't imagine the stones would still be going 40 years down the line. And coupled with careless pressing companies that's not much of a result.
     
    Heavymental, May 19, 2004
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  10. Heavymental

    mr cat Member of the month

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    I recall reading some time ago that if you play a 'mono' record with a stereo stylis, then you'll also receive a lot of noise too..?? something to do with the mono recording not utilisng the full length of the groove where the stereo stylis can reach...??

    I'm no expert on vinyl at all...but it's just my twopennies worth!
     
    mr cat, May 19, 2004
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  11. Heavymental

    domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance

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    I doubt it - in those days, bands like the Stones and Beatles were viewed as cash cows, and "besides, they won't be around in a year anyway", so slapshod mastering/manufacturing for many artists' work was par for the course... :( I mean, let's face it; EMI probably didn't think that when they signed The Beatles in 1962, people 42 years later would be wearing out their records as "the best band ever"...

    Tones - they only pressed classical records 400 (or 100) to a stamper as they'd only be able to sell classical releases in one pressing run of 400 or 100 'cos no-one listens to it :)
    :duck:

    JUST KIDDING :) The "no-one" bit isn't a dig - I've not met you, but Henryt's an extensive classical fan and he's certainly not a "no-body", so by deduction (and due to the fact you have impeccable taste for living somewhere *decent* like Sweden....) That's supposed to be a compliment but I'm probably digging a bigger hole with every keystroke now!
     
    domfjbrown, May 19, 2004
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  12. Heavymental

    The Devil IHTFP

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    I have many Beatles records and the sound/recording quality is second to none.

    The mixing sounds a bit 'vintage' compared to some of today's stuff - it's very simple - but that is a completely separate issue.

    Sounds to me as if you have a duff pressing.
     
    The Devil, May 19, 2004
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  13. Heavymental

    tones compulsive cantater

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    Aha, Dom, m'boy, spoken like a true Philistine! But then, why should today be any different?
     
    tones, May 19, 2004
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  14. Heavymental

    Heavymental

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    Dom….mine was the same point…I doubt all those years ago they thought people would be hunting through boxes of old records looking for those gems and paying big money for them on worldwide internet auction sites! No doubt they now wish they had made them sound half decent. At least the sleeve looks half decent. Those hippies were obviously better at graphic design than sound production!

    Although my 100 posts have mostly been confused questions with nothing in the way of advice, I suppose to celebrate my 100th post I really ought to treat myself to an avatar. So heres another confused question… how do I do that?!


    Crikey….I think 'Senior Member' is a bit of a misrepresentation given my lack of knowledge!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2004
    Heavymental, May 19, 2004
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  15. Heavymental

    RickyC

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    Heavy

    I got the first 6 Stones albums as a job lot on eBay a while back. They were 70's repressings i think - all in EX/EX condition - and they sound shite! Like you describe really tinny. Other vinyl I've got from the 60's (Beatles, Byrds, Dylan etc) sounds different league by comparison - although some may well be 60's originals rather than represses.

    Damn annoying either way.

    Rich
     
    RickyC, May 19, 2004
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  16. Heavymental

    leonard smalls GufmeisterGeneral

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    Aye, but it's a shame about the music:D

    And before anyone says owt, "I wanna hold your hand" and it's ilk are a crime that cannot be justified, or even atoned for
    :duck:
     
    leonard smalls, May 20, 2004
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  17. Heavymental

    Uncle Ants In Recordeo Speramus

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    Ooooh :rolleyes: I see you put that in the small print :) So you don't think Taxman or Daytripper cancel them out then?
     
    Uncle Ants, May 20, 2004
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  18. Heavymental

    leonard smalls GufmeisterGeneral

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    To tell the truth I don't really like anything they ever did.. They were always too vocal-based as opposed to music-based for me (if you know what I mean).
    And "I wanna hold your hand" just puts them into the boyband category.

    I met this lady in our local last night who claimed to be the Jude in "Hey Jude" (and it's possible, having heard about her from others in the pub) - having expected me to be over-awed just by the God-like-ness of the words "The Beatles" was most dis-chuffed by me saying I actively hated them..

    Perhaps it's a throwback to the days when you either liked the Beatles or The Stones, never both!
     
    leonard smalls, May 20, 2004
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  19. Heavymental

    domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance

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    That's *£&$£$ - Paul wrote the song about Julian Lennon when John broke up with Cynthia - I never figured out how he got "Jude" from "Julian" mind you - maybe too much acid?

    ...and without "I wanna hold your hand" there'd have BEEN no 60s psyc movement (well, it would have been different anyway), as Dylan wouldn't have misheard the "I can't hide" (I get high) lyric and then dutifully introduced Da Boyz to the herb - andt that of course went on to LSD and created "Tomorrow never knows" - and onwards and upwards...

    Tones - yeah, you're probably right; special edition runs of pop/rock vinyl definitely sound better than, say, NOW 23 on vinyl.

    We won't even mention my "The 80s" double LP - got this last week off a guy on Pink Fish - it's mint, but very frying pan. You can see bruising on it too - good old carp EMI late 80s pressings :( Luckily the Dead Kennedys and Def Leppard ones sound fantastic, so 2 out of 3 ain't bad :)

    I've got "Hot rocks" on "virgin" vinyl; I made a mistake, got the Greek pressing AND it's digitally remastered. Talk about claws down chalkboard.

    To be replaced with the SACD - one day...
     
    domfjbrown, May 20, 2004
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  20. Heavymental

    RickyC

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    So she was Julian Lennon then ;)

    Rich

    Oops crossed with Dom's!
     
    RickyC, May 20, 2004
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