Need advice from Border Patrol PSU owners

My current setup is an Art Audio Quintet through Klipsch La Scalas. It sounds good with everything, in fact it sounds gorgeous with stuff like cello and piano sonatas.

However.....I recently borrowed a friends amps: Rose ECC82-based pre and an old Musical Fidelity 270w solid-state power. And I realised how much I'm missing in the way of energy and excitement on rock and pop. Even the most energetic songs sound so relaxed through the Quintet. The amp loves Ashkenazy playing Chopin. But it's not quite so happy listening to Lemmy and the chaps giving it maximum grunt. Motorhead are not supposed to sound laid back .

So, I'm weighing up adding a BP power supply. I'm not daft enough to expect the BP give the delicate Quintet the same energy as the Rose/MF, but will it push it in that direction or am I barking up the wrong tree? Will a bit more gruntiness be on the menu?

BTW, yes, I am aware that I am now on a very slippery slope called The Pointless Quest for the Perfect Amp .

 

The Rose is quite nice but extremely bandwidth limited compared to modern offerings. If you want quintets and rock I'd suggest looking at the BP 'control' amp before the PSU. I know the BP pre is 3K new but they sometimes turn up s/h - I got one on ebay for 600 quid (a prototype, but a late one). It is an excellent preamp; the best I've had of quite a few. It works equally well with my SS and valve power amps.

 

Hi,

Adding a Border Patrol supply will improve matters. It will go towards what you are after. It will tighten up the sound. I understand Definitive Audio may have one in for very little money.

A better amp will improve things further. Depends how much you want to spend. With your speakers, you don't need loads of power.

What pre do you normally use with the Art Audio amp power amp? The Border Patrol suggestion is a good one. I too have one of these protypes. Very good for the money.

SCIDB

 

Cheers, SCIDB. I spotted the one at Definitive, I'll be calling them later.

The Quintet doesn't actually have a seperate pre-amp, Art Audio converted it so I've got a volume pot on the front and a four-way source selector. Whether this means I've got a pre-amp built in to the Quintet or it's simply a power amp with a volume knob, I really couldn't say.

Point taken about a better amp - I'd love to hear a BP amp through my speakers - but money is very tight, hence the musings on a BP PSU.

 

Hi,

I would look at the Border Patrol power supply if money is tight. It say that it is tatty. But so long as it is ok inside, this shouldn't be a problem.

Maybe having a word with Kevin (Definitive ) or Art Audio about possible mods to your amp as well may also help to improve matters.

A Border Patrol amp should go very well with your speakers. He has one (& other interesting amps) on his sale list.

SCIDB

 

It is push pull El34 I believe? (the quintet)

Everything depends on implementation (and I know the BP power supply will push things in the direction you want), but generalising the EL34 is a somewhat smooth sounding character.

I think in combination with a BP power supply, some key cap/resistor changes would bring about some real fire-cracker dynamics.

The price of all the changes (and labour) may well put you in the price range of more expensive amplifiers however.

the amps below may be worth comparison.

Canary 608LV integrated amp. 25 watts with Living Voice upgrade £1000 £3000
Border Patrol P21 power amp with volume control - mahogany - lovely £3200 £4850

 

Yep, it's push pull EL34. I hadn't considered cap/resistor changes; nice one, I'll talk to Kevin.

I did try a Canary 608. Although not full LV spec, Kevin had added Hovland caps. I really couldn't get on with it. Each instrument in a band sounded anywhere from OK to pretty damn good, but it gave a very weird effect - it sounded like there were four systems playing, one doing voice, one doing bass, one doing drums, one doing guitar. There is possibly a hi-fi term for this, but I don't know what it is.

BP P21 - I just haven't got the money , but it's certainly an option for the (unforeseeable) future.

 

definitive is a great shop for new kit (one of the best I think), but for modifying amps I would speak to Nick at hificollective. I go there, and so do a couple of other people on here.

Because they sell the bits (and can do the upgrade for you) the combined price is normally pretty reasonable.

If you go that route, I'd ask.. what can you do for ...£300, £500, £750 etc... you can go to any length really.

 

Hi Chris,

There is a number of things you can do to improve the amp. Alot does depend on how much money Thrudge wants to spend. But for the sort improvement he wants, improving the power supply would be the way forward. This would give him the improvements in drive and dynamics. Better power supply is called for.

Other things that can be done include a better pot (volume control) and better caps in the signal path.

Not sure how much Kevin would charge to for fitting the power supply but it is the first thing I would look at.

SCIDB

 

I wouldnt disagree I think border patrol (and generally valve rectified, choke etc) power supplies are good things on valve amps.

I also agree about cap and pot changes. Quite remarkable what they can do.

Without wanting to say too strongly though, Definitive have previous ly asked a LOT for component changes - I know someone in particular who has had a very expensive quotation.. I dont like to labour the point because its still one of the best shops out there.

"a couple of quotations" is definately the order of the day..

 

no one has told you to buy some ATC actives yet?

 

Hi Chris,

What I'm saying is that for thrudge to get sort of improvements he wants a power supply upgrade. He can do it cheapish by buying the Border Patrol power supply that Definitive have for sale for £150.

This is a excellent way of doing it. He could fit it himself as there are plans on the Border Patrol website but I don't know his level of expertise. I don't know how much Definitive will charge to fit it. If not too much, it can be a very good buy. I can understand Definitive not being the cheapest for upgrades.

I'm not suggesting he gets this, or other upgrades, done at Definitive but it's worth looking into. Getting quotes is good. Maybe Nick at Hifi Collective could fit it.


The other upgrades can be done later. Again getting quotes.

SCIDB

 

Cheers, chaps, for all your replies. I ordered the BP unit this morning. You've been most helpful - and it's good to know I'm heading in the right direction

 

Didnt realize it was just £150.

Thats very cheap - I dont think you will regret it at that price.

 

I'd have been seriously tempted myself but having monos I presumed I'd have needed two

Jeff

 

Beat me to it for the same reason