Need help to build a hifi

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by Roy, Jul 25, 2005.

  1. Roy

    Roy

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    Alright, i have long seeked a forum as active as this with people like here.

    Recently my little bro broke my amplifier (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1027141/P1010026.JPG)
    this hifi system is sony and had lasted 15 (or more) years, and the warantee is long gone, as well as this product. So i thought, oh well, this amp has long passed its age, need to get up to date.
    so i had a look at some more amps, Sony STR-DB795 came to my mind as being an affordable and good amp.
    This amp however is also multichannel, and i only have 2 speakers, so i thought... lets get some new speakers too!
    budget is getting tight for the speakers thought, so i need help for that.
    5.1 should do, no need for more really, i dont actually know what the Sony STR-DB795 limits are for ohms, i hoped you could help me out with that.

    also if you think the Sony STR-DB795 isn't worth it, could you name a better (but cheaper or same price) amp? cheaper better so more to spend on speakers.
    my current speakers are 6ohms and 80w each, they also look nice and are about 40cm high, i would like about the same but more impressive looking speakers if anyone could name me any, which would fit with the Sony STR-DB795.

    i would say a max budget of... 500 quid (inc the amp) £400 preferably so more cash to spend on cds, and maybe update the cd player too.


    thanks for helping out.
     
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  2. Roy

    Rory satisfied

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    you could get a storming 2nd hand stereo (2ch) amp for £400. An Exposure, Linn, Naim, TAG, Vincent, Quad etc are all within your reach and will blast the sony '795 out of the water for music playing abilities.

    If however you really really want to have 5 tonally matched speakers in precise speaker locations with wires all over the place then the Sony '795 is an ok multichannel amp for £300.

    Nows the time where you mention what speakers you're using.
     
    Rory, Jul 25, 2005
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  3. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    yup, main thing is to decide whether your priority is music, or home-cinema.

    you can get 'ok' sound for movies through a good hifi (and great music sounds)

    or

    you can get 'ok' music sounds through an av system (and great cinema sounds).

    its not really a like-for-like comparison however, as with the av system you're stretching the budget over an extra 3 channels of amplification and an extra 3 speakers plus a sub!

    check out the ''best system for £500?" thread, for ideas of decent second hand and new amplifiers and speakers in your price range. The question was about a system for music however, instead of AV.

    Nearly all of us first got into hifi when we went into some hifi dealer or other, and sat in the demo room and heard what hifi can really sound like. You owe yourself that experience if I can be so bold! - you could ask them what they could put together for about £1500, because thats the value of system you'd be putting together second hand for £500. If you felt guilty for wasting their time, you could always buy some odds and sods from there - speaker cable, interconnects, or even use their ex-dem second hand items..
     
    bottleneck, Jul 25, 2005
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  4. Roy

    Roy

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    correct

    i went in some huge store last summer and walked through 50m of endless rooms with superb quality sound/vision. its just then that i thought i should update, but the fact my amp is now dead really triggered it.

    my speakers and the rest of my hifi is at least 15 years old, and you wont find the information anymore (maybe for speakers, i had a look for the amp and couldnt find it)

    unfortunatly, i am what they call a "noob" in technical stuff. i have still much to learn, and i am a full time student and £1500 is out of my budget, although i could, i won't. second hand is no problem for me, just need to find it. you give me all those names, they are like a foreign language such as italien, quick to learn but impossible to understand at first.

    so i am sorry to say, could you please give me either the full names of these things (so i can find out myself) or give me some sort of explanations (which will save me time)
    i am already gratefull for your help up to now

    btw, i am not really going for home cinema audio, more for music... i have a cheap 5.1 for my pc which works for DVD

    if you think 5.1 isnt worth it, then i will got for 2 speakers, but i love bass, and thats why i like 5.1. the 2 speakers i already have are not satisfying enough, i intended to use them as front speakers. i will give u the model now : sony SS-EX 50

    my amp was a MHC-EX5 if thats any help.

    its true that on a budget so type (and i do intend on getting it second hand) i could go for a normal amp, just name me a briliant one.
    should i also get new speakers? i don't know what ill do with my old ones however. flog them?

    Edit:
    also the thread "£500 for system" looked good, but again, i can't make the difference between a good system and a bad system that are suggested. also , they are systems, i intend only to get a new amp and maybe speakers ( or if you think i should, get new stuff for the rest... new tuner could be good, the current one is sh!te)


    also, no big stores around where i live, its a s**t hole here, ill have to travel an hour to get to a good store.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2005
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  5. Roy

    JohnD76

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    Roy,

    I think your money would be best spent on a decent second hand Stereo system (2 speakers). Ebay is always a good place to look for second hand hifi, but make sure you know how much the item you are looking at is worth new so that you don;t end up paying over the odds for it.

    What kind(s) of music do you listen to? What are your existing speakers? What do you mainly listen to, CD, tuner, Vinyl?

    Apologies for all the questions, but it helps us paint a better picture of what you actiually need. I would be tempted to spend a fair amount £200 to £400 on a decent second hand Amp and possibly update speakers and tuner at a later date also getting second hand equipment... If it ain't broke then don't immediately junk it, use it and keep saving some cash for the next 2nd hand upgrade.

    Cheers,

    John.
     
    JohnD76, Jul 25, 2005
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  6. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    to be honest, this is the kind of thread that a lot of people like (myself included!) because we get to play, how far can I stretch the budget?!

    Firstly, yes, definately flog your speakers on e-bay, and start over. If you're willing to go second hand, and you're willing to go 2 channel instead of 5.1, then you can do very very well.

    Here's a few ''instant systems'' (if you have a cd player already)

    1) Second hand stuff from a second hand shop. Has the advantage that you can normally get a swap if you hate it, and you have a short warranty. These items are from http://www.emporiumhifi.co.uk

    DENSEN BEAT B100 integrated amp 350
    RUARK TALISMANS 800 250

    I've gone £100 over, but blimin eck its worth it. Thats quite a 1st system.


    2) One from the "£500 system" thread. This is new kit, if thats what you want.

    Tannoy active reveal. £300
    http://www.gotsc.com/details.tpl?ca...KU=5090028&link=details&listing=subcategories

    This is a pair of speakers with a power amplifier in them. They are excellent for the money. You need to add a seperate pre-amp (a volume knob and a selector switch) and some stands to put them on.

    Heres a passive pre that comes as a kit for £165. If you couldnt make it yourself, it would be easy to get someone to do it for about £50.
    http://www.worldaudiodesign.com/wadproducts/pas11.html

    A pair of stands from richer sounds and you would be away.



    Not to put too finer point on it, either of those systems would IMHO crap on a 5.1 cinema system for music purposes.

    NB
    The first system includes some quite large floorstanders, so you would need a decent sized room, if you have a small room like 9x9 for example, system 2 would be better.

    There are a lot of other ways you could go, and many other components. Thats a fine start though and far better than I started out with for a similar budget.

    Chris
     
    bottleneck, Jul 25, 2005
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  7. Roy

    Roy

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    no problems for questions, anything that can help you and thus me

    i have already givent information on my speakers, here they are :sony SS-EX 50 , 80w and 6ohm each (i could check the manual for more info perhaps)

    i usually listen to CDs, although if i can stick a plug to my pc for my bigger music database, would be easier (im sorry, i don't know what vynils are)
    tuner isn't important really, the only time i listen to the radio is in the car or on my alarm clock.

    to be honest, if i am going to get new speakers, amp and tuners (and maybe cd player?) i might as well spend more, perhaps 800 quid, although i rather get the tuner (cd player?) later to make it seem cheaper ( psychologicly anyway hehe)

    i had a look on ebay... there are so many i really dont know what good and whats not.
     
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  8. Roy

    Roy

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    ok getting complicated here, last time i got a system was 15 years ago lol
    pre-amps are basicly just the knob and volum stuff? ok, i would need to get someone to do it (although i could have a look in the family, must be an electrician somewhere)

    i have absolutly no idea what power amps are, i saw them in reviews but no explanation really.

    i have not the time to have a look at the links i will do so in an hour or so.

    also, i may sound like a kid right now, but i like to have speakers that look good. some massive things, with perhaps less quality that some small ones, but at least as big as my old ones.

    i must drive home now, will be back in an hour or so

    thanks all for your help.
     
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  9. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    this is what ruark talismans look like

    http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/stoneaudio/products/details.asp?Product=997&range=997

    second hand you'd have an earlier model (I, or II) but they look similar. As you can see the latest version of the speaker costs £1499. The I and II when they were out about 8 years or so ago were around £899.

    Here is a link to the Beat B100. As you can see, thats a nice amp too, costing the best part of £700 when new.

    http://www.hifiplus.com/t-rev1-6-tab.html


    amplifiers have 2 sections in them.

    the first section is a 'pre-amp'. This is just a selector switch and a volume control - thats it. Some use electricity, others dont. If they dont its called 'passive'. If it does they are 'active'. The WAD one I showed was 'passive'.

    The second part of an amp is the 'power-amp'. This is the bit that makes things louder, amplifies them if you like. It always uses electricity.

    You can get these two items seperately, or at your price point more likely in the one box.

    With the Tannoy reveals they have the 'power amp' section built in, so you just need the 'pre' bit.

    The Ruarks dont have any sort of amplifier built into them, and need a complete amplifier like the 'Beat'.

    Attaching your PC to your hifi is a great way to get music to it. Lots of people here do it.

    Some people choose to do it wirelessly with a ''squeezebox" which streams music from a computer. http://www.slimdevices.com/

    I'd reccomend getting the speakers and amplifier sorted first, and then look at whether you want to attach your computer or get a cd player etc after. It can get complicated quickly!
     
    bottleneck, Jul 25, 2005
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  10. Roy

    Roy

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    your great help thanks
    first thing i did was have a look on the 2nd hand website (quite unclear i must say lol) and found these, then i had a look at the £500 system thread. i was wondering, why did you do a competition with a source included? (what i understood from source was the turntable thing, which is outdated right?)
    those ruark speakers look nice, i was also wondering, would it be worth updated the cables for my system too? they are lets say... old... i got some expensive cables for my DVD and imo, they didn't do much difference.

    edit:
    looking at that amp, is that all it has? again, a silly question, how can i switch from cd player etc? my old amp used to do that.
     
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  11. Roy

    PeteH Natural Blue

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    :yikes: Don't get them started :D
     
    PeteH, Jul 25, 2005
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  12. Roy

    Roy

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    sorry, no offence meant, i find it quite good those things, just that the CDs are very (imo) inconvinient to handle


    had a look at some reviewed amplifiers, and decided to look at for the Kenwood KAF-3030R, and found it at just under £150... worth it?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2005
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  13. Roy

    badchamp Thermionic Member

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    The Ruark Talisman MKII were £750 new and for £250 are an utter bargain, I used to have a pair. They're quite amp friendly and will go with you if you up grade so well worth a shot.

    Must say I think Chris has come up with a hell of a combo.

    Wouldn't worry too much about cables at the mo-get the basics sorted first. The Densens got 5 source inputs - more than most will need. For the extra dosh I'd go for the Densen, once the bug's bitten I'll bet you wouldn't be happy with the Kenwood for long.

    PS The expensive cables on your DVD might not have appeared to make any difference becaouse the system as it stood wasn't capable of showing you the difference. But that's yet another gaint economy size can of hifi worms.
     
    badchamp, Jul 25, 2005
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  14. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi Roy,

    A source is where the music comes from - so it could be a radio, a record player or a tuner for example.

    For vinyl, lots of people have large record collections they want to play, others like to shop for cheap records, others like vinyl because they think it sounds better. All sorts.

    The Kenwood sounds like a good amp for the money. You could pick up the equivalent second hand for about £40. Like this example.
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3280&item=5791102660&rd=1

    If you go for a pair of Ruarks for example, they really are deserving of a better amplifier (IMO).

    Obviously the kenwood/marantz wont be as good as a Densen Beat B100, or a Naim Nait for example - but it all comes down to how much you want to spend. The 'new' price of a Densen or a Naim amplifier is 4 x that of the Kenwood.

    You could put that Kenwood (or the Marantz in my link) with a pair of speakers like these:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14991&item=5790977070&rd=1

    And you'd have a pretty reasonable sound for not a lot of outlay.
     
    bottleneck, Jul 25, 2005
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  15. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    bottleneck, Jul 25, 2005
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  16. Roy

    Roy

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    yer im afraid that although the densen beat looks like a beast, £350 is a lot. this is tbh, only because in total it would make £600. It comes from a second hand shop thought right? so is it the shop selling on people's behalf or can i get to an agreement with them? (hehe)
     
    Roy, Jul 25, 2005
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  17. Roy

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    The shop is a second hand one, and sells items that have been traded in mostly.

    If you are going to reduce the budget, although it goes against what you may initially feel is best, I would reduce the speaker budget rather than the amplifier budget.

    Think of it as reducing the size of your car, but maintaining your V8 engine. The alternative is to reduce the engine size but keep the car large... think of a 5 series beamer with a 1 litre engine.

    For example, you could use the Densen Beat or the Naim amplifier in my last post with a pair of speakers like these

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=5790201211&rd=1

    which you can get for less than £100.

    That would be a system I'd rather listen to than Ruarks with a budget amp for example.
     
    bottleneck, Jul 26, 2005
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  18. Roy

    Roy

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    yes i understand, perhaps floormount speakers are too important either, i have a lot of descs in the room, a big bookshelf one could be alright.
    ill keep watching the speakers on ebay thought
     
    Roy, Jul 26, 2005
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  19. Roy

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    Yep, that's good advice. Definitely go for the better amp rather than the better speakers. Those Wharfedales would be fine.
     
    technobear, Jul 26, 2005
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  20. Roy

    Roy

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    just noticed :( those wharfeddales are 500 miles away (if not more)
     
    Roy, Jul 26, 2005
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