new living voice prototype horns

When I heard your systems, I thought you had the lower, rounder and weightier bass (and rightly so for your reggae stuff), Chris the more delineated but also somewhat leaner alignment (bearing in mind that I only heard Chris's speakers with the sub). Take that difference and extrapolate on it.

The A7's mid-bass is very expressive and transparent, with timing to shame just about every flat earth speaker I've heard.

The lowest octave is absent, and the region between, say 45 and 70 Hz is a bit less transparent than the region above. It all very much depends on the power amp, of course; with the Heeds, the character difference between the frequency ranges I've mentioned is less pronounced than with a tube amp.

I've been toying with the thought of getting a sub in, but I'm fairly sure I'd hear a discontinuity, which I don't want, it's bad enough that I can hear driver differences between the bass and the horn (less pronounced than with the 4338s, though). I guess I need to work on the crossover.

I still maintain that it's best to think of the A7 as a mini-monitor, albeit one with atypical dynamics.
 
Markus, you'd be amazed what happens to the sound when you add those massive horn loaded bass cabs.

They do something that a sub just can't do, and they seemed to tailor very well.

The trousers must flap, and I'll get this kind of arrangement one day.

Just need to move house first..
 
Markus Sauer said:
I still maintain that it's best to think of the A7 as a mini-monitor, albeit one with atypical dynamics.
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I was thinking the same thing about the LV and Guy Sergeant's Vitavox. Basically mini monitors with huge dynamic potential. They definately need something below 70 hz, but the folded bass horn used by Kevin is the only solution that maintains that speed and provides believable cohesion in the lower registers.

The bottom end on the JBL's is actually weighty yet tight porvided you are not sitting in a room mode - but not on a par with the folded horn. My problem is I don't think I could live with the midrange colouration (however small) that I hear with vintage compression drivers and horns. An ideal solution would be a mid bass horn running up to 800hz crossing over to a JBL/TAD for my tastes. Then build some folded horns into the wall for reinforcement.

I certainly would not mate the mid bass I heard yesterday with a Velodyne or any such modern device.
 
I think a lot depends on the room you have to fill with bass.

I've been speaking today to a few professionals today about bass bins.

Basically, the sound develops in the way you would want about 15 feet from the horn mouth was the information I received. Adding that to the depth of the bass horn (say for example 4 feet), and the living room must be a bare minimum of 19 feet deep at the listening position.

In kevin's demo room, there was a good 4-5 feet behind the sofa, and behind that there was an LP rack (full wall) for difraction (and storage of course).

So, 25 feet front to back looks like a requirement.

Bass horns of course come from professional sound reinforcement - clubs, theatres, cinema's etc. A sub is better for the normal british living room, which is why I'm sticking with one (despite seeing the bargain of the century in bass-bins on the net).

Not just being a case of bass souding good of course - when I level match my sub to my speakers at normal listening volume the room cannot take that quantity of bass....I have to turn it down by about 20% to stop booming
 
Stereo Mic said:
An ideal solution would be a mid bass horn running up to 800hz crossing over to a JBL/TAD for my tastes. Then build some folded horns into the wall for reinforcement.
Click to expand...

When you've got that installation, please invite me for another listen.
 
well, off to nottingham today, and had a lot of fun listening to these...
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I. want.some.

(I have psychotic dreams of including enormous horns into the very fabric of a building; one of these days...)
 
bottleneck said:
I think a lot depends on the room you have to fill with bass.

I've been speaking today to a few professionals today about bass bins.

Basically, the sound develops in the way you would want about 15 feet from the horn mouth was the information I received. Adding that to the depth of the bass horn (say for example 4 feet), and the living room must be a bare minimum of 19 feet deep at the listening position.

In kevin's demo room, there was a good 4-5 feet behind the sofa, and behind that there was an LP rack (full wall) for difraction (and storage of course).

So, 25 feet front to back looks like a requirement.

Bass horns of course come from professional sound reinforcement - clubs, theatres, cinema's etc. A sub is better for the normal british living room, which is why I'm sticking with one (despite seeing the bargain of the century in bass-bins on the net).

Not just being a case of bass souding good of course - when I level match my sub to my speakers at normal listening volume the room cannot take that quantity of bass....I have to turn it down by about 20% to stop booming
Click to expand...

I was involved in the late 70's with large PA rigs and the most frightening beasts were the Cerwin Vega bass bins. They had wings that folded out about 15 feet to form the horn mouth. There was story doing the rounds at the time of a roadie who having set everything up at an outside concert, and it started to rain so he went and sat in the throat one of the bins to have a spliff. He fell asleep, when the band sound checked they killed him. He was found in the bin with blood coming out of his ears.

Richard
 
I would like to issue a challenge to anyone within easy reach of London who has a speaker system like this and SET amps.

I see absolutely no reason why you (meaning me) cannot design solid state to emulate the advantages perceived in SET's driving this type of system. I know Tim P did some many years back, I am not sure if he still does them, anyone here with any experience of them?

Anyway I fancy giving it a go as a project, no charge and no obligation apart from ears and speakers. I have some ideas for the project :rolleyes:

Richard
 
Hi Richard,

I did hear TDP's transistor SE Class A amp briefly. He did a valve one at the same time with the same name (which escapes me). It was ok but didn't sound like a big triode with heavy anode current going through it.

My own best Class A SS efforts have been with the J Linsley Hood circuit which can sound very nice but which lack the colour and richness of tone you can get with a valve circuit. Vey dependent on the output cap you used aswell.

There must be better ways of doing it than that though.

The best SS amp I've heard was the Rappaport designed Octave Research amp which was quite something once it had been on for a few days.
That really would see off many valve amps.
 
i hesitate to say this but if you are after the sheer palpability of a big bass horn system in a small room - get yourself 4 speakers capable of decent bass and use 4 channels of amplification (i'm not talking multichannel here just normal stereo with left front / rear sharing the same signal) i've a mate who runs this kind of system in a small bedsit and the spl's he gets from some very humble kit is frightening. i'm not saying it can compete with the subtlety of a high end horn system but for banging out dance music it's superb.
 
murray johnson said:
Hi Richard,

I did hear TDP's transistor SE Class A amp briefly. He did a valve one at the same time with the same name (which escapes me). It was ok but didn't sound like a big triode with heavy anode current going through it.

My own best Class A SS efforts have been with the J Linsley Hood circuit which can sound very nice but which lack the colour and richness of tone you can get with a valve circuit. Vey dependent on the output cap you used aswell.

There must be better ways of doing it than that though.

The best SS amp I've heard was the Rappaport designed Octave Research amp which was quite something once it had been on for a few days.
That really would see off many valve amps.
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Well I think there are better ways, which is why I have been looking and bidding on ebay for something reasonably suitable to use in the design process. The Altec 15's would have been nearest, but I really haven't got the room. So seeing this thread I thought I would try to make it an open joint project with the group, maybe with a bake-off and a few sets of ears when run in and ready. Gives an opportunity for those who want to see / hear what a SET does and what a SS designed for this same purpose can do (a different set of design compromises to normal Hi-Fi high end SS amps).

BTW I think the Lindsey Hood circuit is completely the wrong direction.

Rappaport definitely knew what he was doing, but his stability margins were just too narrow. This was with his own amps in the 70's, just too unreliable, but very musical and I suppose valve like. But the only in production valve amp around to compare with then was Anthony Michaelsons one (TVR wasn't it, oh no thats a car - TVA?), and that fried spectacularly more often than the Rappaport. I don't know this design you refer to.

Richard
 
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Julian,
High SPLs are very easy, but that is not the reason most of us (well, me at any rate) like horns.

Chris,
What you need are some classic and totally (in)authentic WE folded bass horns

custom-image5.jpg


From our good and seriously otaku buddies at http://wec5.jp/
And yours for a measly $6K the pair!!! (sans driver, of course).

I still don't understand why Living Voice don't get some distribution in Japan. They could be huge here, and the kudos from being big in Japan would do them no end of good in Taiwan, Korea, China, Singapore etc...
 
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they really should, especially when the new speaker is finished.

I hadn't realized they have the rights, manufacture and tooling for the vitavox S2 driver (vitavox's best!). This means they could bang out new vintage drivers for the Japanese..
 
Joel,

Is there any pricing info on those custom made LCR phono pre's?
My translation programme hit the buffers with this site!
 
murray johnson said:
Is there any pricing info on those custom made LCR phono pre's?
My translation programme hit the buffers with this site!
Click to expand...
No there isn't. I'll give them a call - or maybe I'll see them at the high-end show tomorrow...
 
Stereo Mic said:
Those WE copies would make wonderful AV subs for watching Tim Burton movies.
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Umm - isn't that a midrange horn?

Btw, have you heard Guy Sergeant's system you've mentioned above? I'd be interested in your take on Vitavox vs. Altec vs. JBL, should you have one.
 

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