Now this really is snake oil...

Thanks, Michael, I often wonder what these people are drinking (or smoking) when they write these things. (By the way, how is the Ayatollah John Paul II these days?).
 
The true snake oil

Nah, you don't need this toy, what you all really really need is an Earth Demagnetiser (tm timbo enterprises) This puppy will utterly demagnetise the whole planet removing all those pesky magnetic fields from your listening room. A snip at $15bn from the Audiofool Megalomaniac Emporium.

Pity non of your motors etc will work them.

timbo
 
Yeah -but then you'll have no surface noise and inky black silences :)

What a load of old BS - if you're that paranoid about magnetism on your CDs, just get a turntable and use that. Static's easier to remove than magnetism...
 
"The ink on the printed side of a aluminum alloy CD contains iron, therefore the disc will become magnetized sooner or later."

It suddenly occurred to me that this is a load of old twaddle. Dom's "inky black" made me think of it. Any iron present will not be metallic iron but an iron compound, present as a pigment. The point is that, with a very few exceptions, iron compounds are non-magnetic - and you can try till you're blue in the face but you won't change their fundamental properties. Even the most commonly-encountered iron compound, ferrous oxide (rust) is non-magnetic. The only exception that I can think of, off-hand is the double oxide magnetite FeO.Fe2O3. This is black in colour, but it probably wouldn't be used as a pigment, as carbon black is vastly cheaper and easier to disperse in an ink vehicle.

Magnetic pigments are specialised items that are used used in applications where their magnetic properties are specifically desired - where they aren't, there are plenty of alternatives. I therefore think that we're looking at a complete con - any magnetic material in a printing ink used for CDs would be infinitesimally small.
 
Ah, the old pooh pooh what we don't know or challenges our understanding, attitude.

Common chaps, eyes open, wallet closed [I like that]. So if it doesn't work no harm done but if it does ?

Now I've no idea the level of Fe, Fe salts in the ink or indeed in the plastic, or as impuriteies in the aluminium. But what I do know is if you spin a magnet in an electric field you develope and EMF [elctro motive force]. Now we know this effect in electric motor and generators, so the question is do we want the possibility of the do electric current dashing up and down the wiring in side your latest megabuck CDP ? Well the answer has got to be NO !

If you wish to demagnetise a cd there any number of ways, just check the web. One off the top of my head is that if you hit a magnetic material it decreases in the level of flux.....I'm not advocating you hit your cd's !!

I've heard people say they use bulk tape erasers, I can't say what effect they have but here's and address

http://www.degaussers.net/


When you switch on your TV it runs through a degauss process, and also if you keep the button pressed in you will hear a slight ping ping, this is the set running its degauss proceedure. Strickes me if you held your CD near the TV and did this a couple of times you could ? achieve the same effect.

I'll try it and see if it works and I'll report back !!
 
Tones...
heamglobin has some magnetic properties, not certain but don't they use thisin one the blood cleaning processes ?

Iron steel Nickel Cobalt are magnetic off the top of my head, all there salts are probably magnetic as well

Any Iron atom free or combined will exhibit some behaviour when placed in a magnetic/electric field, in fact all atoms will to some extent. Hence the use of Nuclear Magnetic resonance NMR scans,not quite the same thing but close enough.
 
Originally posted by zanash
But what I do know is if you spin a magnet in an electric field you develope and EMF [elctro motive force].
Click to expand...

Er, not quite. If you rotate a loop of wire in a magnetic field, you will induce a current in that wire. This is the basis of electric motors and generators. But you must have both magnet (or electromagnet) and conductor in which a current will be induced.

As there is no magnet here to produce a magnetic field (it must be magnetic in the first place, otherwise it doesn't work, and as CDs make lousy fridge magnets, I conclude that they aren't) and no electric field, there is no induced current (and nothing for any induced current to flow in anyway).

So I remain of the opinion that it's a con and any difference will be detected because the listener wants there to be one. Absolutely nothing wrong with that of course, but trying to pass it off as a generally applicable law is.
 
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Originally posted by zanash
Tones...
heamglobin has some magnetic properties, not certain but don't they use thisin one the blood cleaning processes ?

Iron steel Nickel Cobalt are magnetic off the top of my head, all there salts are probably magnetic as well

Any Iron atom free or combined will exhibit some behaviour when placed in a magnetic/electric field, in fact all atoms will to some extent. Hence the use of Nuclear Magnetic resonance NMR scans,not quite the same thing but close enough.
Click to expand...

Careful, Zanash, you're confusing the reaction of materials to magnetic fields with paramagnetism - they're two entirely different things. For one thing, NMR has absolutely nothing to do with magnetic materials - its primary function is to analyse hydrogen in organic molecules (there's one just down the corridor from me and I have to use the data all the time in my patent applications). Nothing much is less magnetic than hydrogen.

Can't answer for the blood cleaning processes, I'm afraid, but I don't think it would rely on attracting haemoglobin to a magnetic surface.

It's true that iron and some of its alloys (including some steels), plus cobalt and nickel, can indeed be paramagnetic (able to be magnetised), but don't generalise that too much. Most of the compounds simply aren't magnetic, ditto many steels (e.g. many stainless steels), and, if I remember correctly, cast iron. Paramagnetic materials are thinner on the ground than you think. And I find the idea that some minor proportion of an iron-based pigment in a CD label is going to acquire a degree of paramagnetism to be simply ludicrous.
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Zanash, Our Tones, is man of many talents, Metallurgy being among them
Click to expand...

I'll settle for "some knowledge of chemistry", O Namesake!
 
Re: The true snake oil

Originally posted by timbo
Nah, you don't need this toy, what you all really really need is an Earth Demagnetiser (tm timbo enterprises) This puppy will utterly demagnetise the whole planet removing all those pesky magnetic fields from your listening room. A snip at $15bn from the Audiofool Megalomaniac Emporium.

Pity non of your motors etc will work them.

timbo
Click to expand...

I guess the appropriate expression is, "Cor(e)!"
 
Your missing the point !


Lets assume that the disc is magnetised ie a magnet of small flux density, are you saying that if this is spun then no EMF is generated in the coils and wire of the CDP ?

lets assume the disc is not magnetic and is spun
but there are Ferrous elements in and arround the cd tray are you saying eddy currents will not be produced in the disc?
Ferrous elements will carry magnetism

Correct me if I'm wrong but most CDP have both magnets and wires very close to the disc, are you saying there's no interaction ?

What of all the other princilpes that involve electromagnetic properties ?

Mass spectroscopy
NMR
Lorentz force
Hall effect
Landau levels
Magnetohydrodynamics

What of paramagnetism ?


On an atomic level an atom can be made to spin in a magnetic field, it's electrons raised to higher orbitals and many other effect that are too boring to mention

Many of these only have one contributing factor ie magnetic flux density, but that to deny that ever precence of small electromagnetic fields in our daily lives, have no effect is very poor science.

Intrestingly enough just tried the cd in front of the TV and degaussed. There are tantalizing differences, very small perhaps, a more relaxed presentation maybe. An extra sweetness, these for me are very small, but not non existant. Difficult to replicate as the disc is or isn't magnetised, and you have to wait for it to become magnetised again.

So there may or may not be something in it !
I'm keeping an open mind.
 
No to just about everything, Zanash!

The first very assumption ("Lets assume that the disc is magnetised") is a gi-normous whopper that I couldn't accept. Currents, eddy or otherwise, require conductors, which a CD manifestly is not. I believe that any interaction would be so tiny as to be utterly insignificant.

In short, I don't believe a word of it, so I guess we beg to differ. Perhaps I am missing the point. But I believe that's directly related to the lack of a point to hit! Put it this way; I won't be buying one or demagnetising anything.
 
NMR bad example the mag field, generated by a huge toroidal coil, produces a raise in the vibrational energy of hydrogen ions [proton] within organic tissue. So no, magnetism doesn't effect other materials that have not got conductors in them

What does "let us assume" mean to you?

answers an on a postcard

That might take too long ......

It was hypothesis

by definition
A hypothesis is a tentative explanation that accounts for a set of facts and can be tested by
further investigation.

Quote
"eddy or otherwise, require conductors, which a CD manifestly is not."

Aluminium is not a conductor ?

So your spinning this none conductive aluminium disc in a CDP above a electric motor [by definition a magnet and wires coils] surrounded by the mag flux of the transformer and the rest of the components and your saying there's no interaction ?

My basic science must all be wrong

I bow to your obviously superior Knowledge.
 
As a subscriber to Audiophilecandy's email newsletter, I also received news of this little device in my inbox late last night. I certainly have an open mind as to the audible merits of this little box of tricks, but at the advertised price I'm going to state here and now that my wallet will be remaining well and truly closed, now matter how big the improvements (if any of course ;) ).

These guys are offering a 30 day money back if not satifised terms of sale, IIRC, so if you try and don't like, then return the package and nothing is lost.

Personally, I'd start by trying out some of the cheaper anti-static treatment devices for CDs on the market. Working on the theory that electro-static energy (static eletricity) is created and discharged as a CD spins around inside a player. The waves of electro-static energy are alleged to not only interfere with the signal carryiing wires and parts (via RFI), but also affect the correct focusing of light photons from the laser (i.e. the static charge has the potential to propel or skew the laser beam).

Ringmat's Statmat is a fairly costsly (£40, IIRC) film like disc which sits on top of the disc in the disc drawer of the CDP (you basically stick it on top of the label side of the disc, close draw and play). Other similar devices are sold by Audiophilecandy too if you do a search on their website.

I'd give the some anti-static sprays a try like Nordost's ECO3 or Russ Andrews Relees. An even cheaper alternative and has good results apparently is anti-static lens cleaner spray as used in photography. I'd suspect that office screen cleaning and photo copier anti-static cleaning sprays would also be suitable.

Interesting stuff re using the de-gauss cycle of a TV, Zanash :). Do you mean *any* TV can be used, or do you mean specifically computer monitor screens? I mean normal TVs always produce static charge on the screen if you leave dust to build up on the screen, but computer monitors never suffer from this static buld up problem (why can't they do the same de-gauss for normal TVs too :rolleyes: ).
 
While I agree with your main argument Tones, is not that shiny layer in the middle of the CD conductive? The magnet manufactureres mostly stopped using aluminium in the bores of the magnets around which we built our NMR machines over 10 years ago precisely because of the eddy current problems. Try waving a bit of aluminium around in a magnetic field if you want to feel their effects - it's really spooky!
 
OK, I confess I overlooked the aluminium layer on CDs! Lack of attention (or advancing senility?) But aluminium is non-magnetic, so it makes not one iota of difference.

But you are arguing on a totally false premise, Zanash. You have to make a difference between diamagnetism (the word I couldn't think of previously - the effect of magnetic fields on materials) and paramagnetism (the ability of materials to become permamently magnetised). Most materials show diamagnetic behaviour. However, as I understand it, we're talking paramagnetism here, and that's what this gadget is all about, the belief that permanent magnets are formed in the pigments of the ink on CDs (that's what the blurb says) and the necessity for their removal. In my opinion, this is such obvious codswallop that it merits no further consideration. I don't dispute that there could arise other effects relating to magnetism within a CD player, but we're talking about demagnetising the ink.

So, while I would certainly not claim superior knowledge, if you believe the ink story, I believe your basic science is indeed all wrong.

P.S. I goofed - I said "paramagnetism" when I meant "ferromagnetism". See

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism
 
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