Ockeghem vs. Bach

Discussion in 'Classical Music' started by bat, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. bat

    bat Connoisseur Par Excelence

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    OK, which of the two is the greatest polyphonist? Currently I feel that Ock is.
     
    bat, Mar 19, 2005
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  2. bat

    pe-zulu

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    Bach/Ockeghem

    Dear Bat

    Why do you think so?

    On the other hand: An inventive topic, just a little too inventive. I think the styles of these two composers are so different, that this sort of comparation is without sense.

    Like
    who is the greatest surrealist:
    Hieronymus Bosch or Renè Magritte?

    Or
    who is the greatest sciencefictionauthor:
    Jules Verne or Stanislav Lem?

    Cheers
     
    pe-zulu, Mar 20, 2005
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  3. bat

    joel Shaman of Signals

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    But it's so much fun!
    So, how about the polyphony of the Babenzele pygmies vs. the Aka pygmies...
    That is a *really* tough one.
    And I could muddy the waters even further by saying that my favourite album of pygmy polyphony is, in fact, <gasp>a Bantu fusion album</gasp> :)
    I really like both Ockegheim and Bach, but even to me they seem quite different.
    And what about Perotin, heh? You cannot leave Perotin out (unless, in fact, you can).

    Joel (still enjoying the jazz-classical Alpha prod albums)
     
    joel, Mar 21, 2005
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  4. bat

    bat Connoisseur Par Excelence

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    The ATP ranking system in tennis is good. Similar system could be developed in arts to make comparisions easier.
    Bosch > Magritte
    Lem > Verne
    Bosch>Lem
    Magritte>Lem
    Verne>Magritte?
     
    bat, Mar 21, 2005
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  5. bat

    eisenach

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    Me too, despite France Musiques using a track as their jingle for the start of the 9 am programme. (Thanks internet streaming audio.)
     
    eisenach, Mar 21, 2005
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  6. bat

    Rodrigo de Sá This club's crushing bore

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    Well... What Pe-zulu said. Nevertheless, let me try and answer. You cannot really compare. Ockhegem's counterpoint is too different from Bach's. Suffice it to say that the former is based on madality and the latter in tonality, which renders the comparison impossible. Nevertheless, considering the Art of Fugue, the masterpieces of the WTC I and II, and the unbelievable ricercare a 6 vox, it i hard not to side with Bach. That said, I love Ockeghem as I have often said.
     
    Rodrigo de Sá, Mar 22, 2005
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  7. bat

    bat Connoisseur Par Excelence

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    But Bach is often so easy to memorize and remember what comes next (for example Goldbergs - I always know what is coming next). In this respect Ockeghem is better (and Agricola, which is IMHO impossible to memorize).
     
    bat, Mar 23, 2005
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  8. bat

    Rodrigo de Sá This club's crushing bore

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    That's just because Bach is tonal and you are used to tonal music and Ockeghem is modal and you are not used to modal music; also, rythmic issues are important, too: jambic and other stuff (Bach like, pa, parapa, pa pa) is very easy whereas long melodic lines are not.

    However, you cannot juge music on facility to memorize it; in which case I suggest Pierre Boulez (and I am being conservative); or, better still, you write a program that gnerates ramdomly six strings of music, each in its own mode and rythmic pattern; that will create a horrible muddle that you definitely won't be able to predict.

    You see, your reasoning is flawed...
     
    Rodrigo de Sá, Mar 24, 2005
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