Percentages again...

I know it has been done to death, but things change and I have nothing to do while waiting for the missus...

Speakers (including 2 subwoofers) - 30%
Powers (would cost more in the store) - 20%
Pre/DAC/Processor - 20%
Player (used as transport only for audio) - 10%
Supports - 8%
Mains - 4%
Speaker cables - 4%
ICs - 4%

I left the TV out because it is to be replaced by a flat something as soon as possible...

 

CD transport - 12%
DAC (with mods) - 10%
Amp - 30.5%
Speakers - 19%
Mains stuff - 13.5%
Audio cables - 7.5%
Supports - 7.5%

That's at prices I paid. At new retail prices, the breakdown is like this:

CD transport - 24%
DAC + mods - 5%
Amp - 26%
Speakers - 26%
Mains - 8.5%
audio cables - 7%
supports - 3.5% (price the same since it was DIY)

 

I am particularly in favour of spending a fair amount on good speakers, at one stage, I had £1500 speakers being driven by a £400 amp and cd player. Speakers are the most obvious change of character to a system, and being a 'mechanical' item, build and technology can be important.
with electronics, it is all by and large similar, all amps are 3 stage designs, and high prices rarely correlate with better sound 'character'. Most cash goes into complexity and power supply, complextity giving an improved measured performance tends to sap vitality IMO.

I am about to build a 300b amp, and these by and large command hugely high prices, simply due to the legendary cult status of the valve.

If you look at what you get, they are the simplest of all, and really ought to be cheaper.

300b vavles don't cost much more to make than regular valves, there is usually only 1 valve driving it, that is 2 valves, a mains transformer and output transformer.

Just look at the circuit of a modern transistor amp, with a big psu.
Now that is complex. Materially, a 300b amp is really simple.

Just take a look near the bottom of the page here to see how simple it is.

http://www.welbornelabs.com/drd.htm

In reality coommercial ones ought not to cost £5000, materially. There is a lot of added premium for the status here.

People will charge what they can get away with, and in hifi as anything, it really skews the you get what you pay for, big style.

 

Here are my figures:

TT / Arm / cartridge /phono stage: 15 %
CD Transport / DAC: 18 %
Preamplifier: 3 %
Amplifiers (1 Stereo and 2 mono): 12 %
Loudspeakers: 24 %
Cables: 19 %
Racks and accessories: 9 %


Personal comments:

• These are list prices when the units can be bought new. Otherwise I used the price it would cost to purchase them second hand.
• I'm not stating the price I paid for because I don't want the dealers to get into trouble.
• The cables have a high percentage because my loudspeakers and amplifiers are about 6 meters away from the rest of the components and I need two cables from the preamplifier to the power amplifiers (one for the low and one for the high frequencies).

 

CDP 10%
Amp 20%
Speakers 32%
Cables/IC/Power 18%
Stands 10%
TT 10%

5k at full retail prices

 

These figures reflect the retail price of the components in the system.


CD Player 26%
Amplifier 22%
Loudspeakers 22%
Cables: 11%
Power conditioning 10%
Racks and accessories: 9%

 

At new prices, something like:

TT/arm/cart/phono stage: 55%
CDP: 15%
Amp: 15%
Speakers: 15%

Looks like source first all the way, but my view has changed a bit since I started this hi-fi lark. IMO speakers are by far the most important component (although they don't necessarily have to be expensive) as they have the greatest effect on the sound of the system. Once the speakers are sorted, amp choice comes down to finding something that will drive them properly, preferences for tubes vs. solid state and the like are entirely matters of personal taste. CDPs are much of a muchness, once you get above super-budget models you'd be hard-pressed to find one that's positively bad. When it comes to TTs, you tend to get what you pay for, and the point of diminishing returns sets in much later than it does with digital.

That's my experience anyway.

-- Ian

 

I found that also,after demoing at least a dozen in the 500-750 bracket,i couldn't for the life of me hear much difference at all,if any,so i went with the one i thought i liked the best

 

I find that spending the same with power and speakers will give a good balance, there are exceptions, of course, if I subtract the subwoofers, my powers cost about the same as my speakers...

I dont know about PREs and DACs, as processors do the lot in surround systems and then some, they are also a key part on the final sound...

 

At the prices I paid,

Speakers: 15%
Stands/Supports: 4% (ghetto moddage of Ikea furniture and s/h stands )
Cables: 11%
CDP/DAC: 27%
Amp: 30%
Tuner: 10% (a real waste really considering the little use it gets, but it does look nice on the rack at least...)

 

Hi,

Based on roughly current or last known prices of my first choice system.

Turntable/Arm/Cartridge 36%
CP transport & Dac 12.5%
Amps inc Phono stage 26%
Loudspeakers 15%
Stands 4%
Cables etc 6.5%

Based on what I paid

Turntable/Arm/Cartridge 35%
CD Transport & Dac 15%
Amps inc phonostage 26%
loudspeakers 11.5%
Stands 4%
Cables etc 8.5%

Not much difference.


I am a believer in the front end first way of thinking. I don't go in for spliting it into exact % but for going for quality not quanity. Generally better turntables cost more due to the low volumes/ high manufacturing & skill costs. The same with arms & cartridges.

Speakers do help shape the ultimate sound but they only can (try to) reproduce what they are fed. A bad signal will give you a bad sound. I do agree that with cd player this becomes less of a problem but with turntables this does generally work. The amp needs to able to drive the load (speaker) in question & not show up the incoming signal. They can only reproduce what they are fed.

A system is only as good as it's weakest link. Just don't make the front end your weakest link.

Hi Ian (Data),

Don't fully agree with your comments about 300B amps.

For a long time, it was the highest power output v performance valve you could get without using transmitting valve that need really high voltages (over a 1KV)). For a long time only Western Electric made made them. It had a number of uses so demand was big. An early PA & hifi amps used 300B. It's not surprising a cult was built around them. As supply slowed down, demand for original ones went up. So did the prices. The laws of supply & demand apply. As the cult of the 300B amp grew so did prices for Western Electric. Prices are higher because the various companies can sell them at those prices.

Not always the case. All does depend on the component quality & type used. Also a lot depends oncost & availablity of these items.
Also all design are not the same.

This can be quite true but alot depends on the full costings to make, the cut of the various people (Taxman, dealers, distrubutors wages, electricity etc.) and also on the number that is hope to sell. The maker needs to sell enough to make a living for themselves.

This is a good thing about buying 2nd hand or having a go at DIY.

SCIDB

 

I tried this on No.2 system. This is an approximation, because the LS3/5As were bought new in 1981 - for £180. Alas, they don't cost that any more...

Anyway:

vinyl - 28%
CD - 22%
amp - 22%
speakers - 28%

I haven't included the cost of cables and interconnects because that comes to just over 1% (and most of that is the two 3M subwoofer ICs) and supports don't feature at all because I haven't any, ditto exotic power cords.

 

Interesting concept. It is easier to see where my money has gone when you add up the retail cost of my toys and then calculate the percentage of each section. This is based on retail cost.

DVDP 43 %
AV Processor 25 %
5 Channel Amp 5 %
5 Speakers+1 Sub 23 %
Cables 3 %
Support 1 %

The support is an old furniture found on the street. Done some work and painting to it to make it looks nice. Extremely dissappointed the cables comes out so high. Could be so much less if I had known they are probably no better then some low cost cables from DIY shop. I could have spend more for a better subwoofer.

After doing that I wonder how much is the system when compare to the money spend on the discs or the music/movie collection. My estimate is system 60 % and discs only 40 %. Is that worth it?

 

CD player : 45%
Amplifier : 29%
Loudspeakers :12%
Cables : 8%
Mains conditioner/distribution : 4%
Equipment rack : 2%

Source first is the way to go for me!

 

Never one to follow tradition.....

Turntable/Arm/cart/Phono stage 8.5%
CD/SACD player 3%
Amplifier 19%
Speakers 46%
Cables 23%
Stands 0.5%

 

By the time you've got a few hundred CDs it's pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned as it takes weeks of non-stop 24/7 listening to get round them all anyway.

 

This week I spent 1000 euros in supports, Stillpoints for the Arcam FMJ player and the Bel Canto power, and SuperSpikes for all the speakers + the two subwoofers, believe me there is no way I could get the same improvement upgrading equipment... :boughtMF:

I wonder if Mana would do the same or more... :latte:

 

Pete,

Good point point Software <> Hardware ratio
712 CD's approx 50% of system cost.
Now compared to either Scidb (Dean) or Tony L/ Sideshow I suppose its not that good, but I feel it keeps the balance there. Wm

 

I dont think the number of records means all, I know people that collects many hundreds of LPs, CDs or DVDs, and listen to a lot less music than me, I rather listen to for instance Mezzo, or radio, and only buy those few I like a lot... :boogie:

 

Source first, bah humbug...

My surround system (5.1)

Speakers (all active) 63%
Processor 33%
DVDPlayer 2%
Stands & Cables 2%

Depending on which bits I use, 2 channel shapes up like this...

Speakers (active) 65%
CD Player 34.8% (no preamp)
Cable & Stands 0.2%

or

Speakers (active) 94%
DAC (with volume control) 5%
DVD Player, Stands & cables 1%