phono stage or step up transformer?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by JackOTrades, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    Hi Everyone,

    I have a NAS Spacedeck which I enjoy thoroughly to listen to. :)
    However, I have recently been able to get a Koetsu Rosewood Signature for a very good price and decided to buy it.

    Well... perhaps impulse but I have this curiosity of how a koetsu will sound like and went for it... :rolleyes:

    I have been using a high output MC into the builtin MM section of my MF A3.2 (the onboard phonostage is actually rather nice and is switchable MM/MC).

    Now I know the loading with MM selected is 47k Ohms but could not find in the manual what is the loading when using the MC option. I know that the ideal loading for the Koetsu is 100Ohms.

    My question to you all is: do I need a step up transformer to put between the TT and the Amp to be able to use the Koetsu?

    Any ideas on whether it is better to use a step up transformer into the onboard stage or if it is better to get an altogether different phono stage (and if so which one will work with the koetsu)?

    Do I really need a phono stage with a loading switch?

    Many thanks!
    Jack
     
    JackOTrades, Jul 19, 2006
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  2. JackOTrades

    anon_bb Honey Badger

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    Most default loadings are 100 ohms for mC which should be fine for koetsu. However buying a pair of S&B stepups and running into MM might well work better. A seperate phono unit would be best with a cartridge of this calibre. Try a TEAD MG+ or a Trichord diablo for starters.
     
    anon_bb, Jul 19, 2006
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  3. JackOTrades

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    HI Jack

    I'd reccomend BBs advice - and trying some outboard phono stages.

    I would be suprised if an 834P (well I like valves) or decent phono stage didnt show the MF a clean pair of heels. It certainly spanked my old MF Elektra E100's phono stage quite completely.

    That was a few years ago, and perhaps MF's phono stages have come on leaps and bounds since then. Who knows.
     
    bottleneck, Jul 19, 2006
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  4. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    I am convinced that the EAR will be better too. Will it work with the Koetsu given that you can't set the loading? (can you?)
    My thinking is mainly in not wasting what I have. I don't think I can use the Phono input if I use an outboard stage, and it seems a shame... still if it sounds a lot better, it may well be worth it.

    BB what is S&B (forgive my ignorance).

    Do you think a Microgroove or a Dino will be good enough or is the Diablo the starting point really? (as in the Dino will be a side step rather than an improvement) What about Dynav. P75?

    Thanks guys!!!
    Jack :beer:
     
    JackOTrades, Jul 19, 2006
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  5. JackOTrades

    anon_bb Honey Badger

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    Stevens and billington

    http://www.stevens-billington.co.uk/pagehifi.htm

    Use these for a stepup - they are great. You can also make a great pre out of one of the other transformers. They cost about £250 for either pair in a group buy.

    I didnt really rate the dino and the ear is not my cup of tea. I dont know the dyna but I bet it is pretty good You can probably get a used TEAD MG+ or diablo for £3-400.
     
    anon_bb, Jul 19, 2006
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  6. JackOTrades

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    With the MC/MM version the 834P has gob-loads of output on MM, and push a button for a boost with the inbuilt step up transformers. It works with most-every cartridge you will come across.

    If you like what the 834p does, only the best valve phono stages will be seen as an improvement.

    Some people prefer solid state phono stages.

    It's best to try both.

    Midland Audio Exchange is advertising a used Dino+ on Pink Fish Media classifieds.
     
    bottleneck, Jul 19, 2006
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  7. JackOTrades

    anon_bb Honey Badger

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    Thats good advice - try a few options.
     
    anon_bb, Jul 19, 2006
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  8. JackOTrades

    Paul L vinyl and valves mostly

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    I look forwards to trying one of those elite valve phono stages at some time in the future. I shall be trying the Lector in the Autumn which is cheaper than many.

    In the meantime I have no complaints with the 834P Deluxe I use and have tried quite a few others. I use mine with the MC switched out and with the EAR MC3 step-ups. It took me some time to get it right in terms of preferred setting and cable match but I really do think it to be a level that most folks will not have experienced or envisaged.
     
    Paul L, Jul 19, 2006
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  9. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    Thank you all for the advice, very useful info.

    A couple of thoughts: I read great many things here about the Loricraft Missing Link stage. Any ideas if that would be a good option?

    Any thoughts on whether it is a better investment to go for a Slee Elevator (~£350) fed into the onboard stage or spend that money on a dedicated second hand stage like the Diablo or MG (I can't find one second hand by the way).

    I will do some listening (prob go to Walrus).
    Cheers guys!
    Jack
     
    JackOTrades, Jul 20, 2006
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  10. JackOTrades

    anon_bb Honey Badger

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    Go for a used stand alone unit.
     
    anon_bb, Jul 20, 2006
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  11. JackOTrades

    Markus S Trade

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    It's excellent. Awesome value for money. No idea how it compares with the Slee, though.
     
    Markus S, Jul 20, 2006
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  12. JackOTrades

    lordsummit moderate mod

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    The Loricraft is indeed stunning value for money. I can't think of anything else under £1500 I'd want to try. I was very impressed though with a 2 box WAD phono stage I heard. That would be worth seeking out as well.
     
    lordsummit, Jul 20, 2006
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  13. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    lordsummit,
    thanks for the suggestion. I am not so good with DIY stuff, even though I can see the added value for money in doing that.
    if I was to sell it on in the future, however, i wouldnt buy something I had put together... ;) (two left hands)

    The Loricraft seems to be worth hearing, as the 834P, the Trichords and the MG... perhaps Walrus stocks them all. Otherwise do you know where I could get hold of a Loricraft?

    Any of you knows if the Microgroove+ is such a big step up from the Microgroove? I know you can't upgrade a MG to a MG+ which is a bummer. Is it more on the clynical side of neutral or is it engaging and transparent with a wide soundstage (i suppose that is what I am looking for really)?

    Thanks everyone!
    Jack

    PS: I believe the MF A3.2 MC stage (inbuilt) has 100 Ohm loading by default and if that is the case it may just work with the koetsu. I still think I need a better stage but if this is the case it will buy me a bit more time to listen to a few before the plunge! :)

    Ta!
     
    JackOTrades, Jul 20, 2006
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  14. JackOTrades

    anon_bb Honey Badger

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    I think walrus has them all. The MG+ is a big step up form the MG - its the lithos super reg that does it. The mg+ is accurate - but I guess thats not to everyones taste.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2006
    anon_bb, Jul 20, 2006
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  15. JackOTrades

    Baudrillard

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    Baudrillard, Jul 22, 2006
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  16. JackOTrades

    Dom_ --->

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    I will have a missing link (loricraft) for sale soon if you want.

    I used it and an 834p but the 834p won purely because i preferred the valve sound. Other than that they are very similar with only the 834p winning due to a tiny tiny tiny smidge more detail.
     
    Dom_, Jul 23, 2006
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  17. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    Baudrillard,

    I am finally auditioning phonostages.
    I have heard a few, notably the Microgroove+ and the EAR 834P.

    To my ears the Microgroove is not what I am looking for. I really liked the EAR, its lifelike presentation and the musicality it offers.

    I am curious about your thoughts around the EAR and the Eastern Electric Minimax. Do you think they are close? What made you prefer the Minimax (if indeed you do prefer that one)?

    Thanks everyone for any light on comparing these two valve stages.

    Jack
     
    JackOTrades, Aug 7, 2006
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  18. JackOTrades

    JackOTrades

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    Is that the same as the EE MiniMax?
     
    JackOTrades, Aug 7, 2006
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  19. JackOTrades

    Stereo Mic

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    Sorry Jack! Wrong thread.

    FWIW, I thought the Koetsu sounded dull loaded at 100ohms and would recommend a phono stage with adjustable loading.
     
    Stereo Mic, Aug 7, 2006
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  20. JackOTrades

    Dynamic Turtle The Bydo Destroyer

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    Jack, you just missed an EE minimax phono on eBay - went for £530 in the end - Bargain!!!

    DT
     
    Dynamic Turtle, Aug 8, 2006
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