Phono stage that likes horns... any suggestions?...

I've got some Horning Agathons, and whilst my CD player really loves them, my vinyl which previously ate CD for breakfast on my JBL Ti2k's, is in real danger of sucking!

My previous phono was a fully tricked out Dino, I bought the 47 labs 4718 Shigaraki on here out of curiosity, which I like and is really growing on me... may not be suited to horns though.

...but just wondered no doubt theres better out there, there must be something that likes horns sound stage wise - what the consensus was on here as Hornings with valve amplification via monoblocks and a Dynavector D17 mk 2 cartridge should be my idea of sonic Nirvana...

nothing too expensive mind...

Cheers, SMEagol

 

Anatek! huge soundstage once run in. have a look at the recent hifi world review they put it up against the Asthetix rea.

the Anatek is £800.

 

Hi Chris(SMEagol),

You could try a valve phono stage. A good start could be the EAR 834P. These crop up 2nd hand. Also have a look at Icon Audio PS1 as this may suit. I know someone who has one of these and is more than happy with it.


If you can find one, try a Audio Innovations P2 phono stage or even the cheaper Audio Innovations P1. The are only available 2nd hand.

The Antek sounds interesting, I have heard their stuff at a hifi show.

BTW which vintage of Horning Agathon do you own? Are these new or 2nd hand?


SCIDB

 

Any valve phonostage needs to very quiet to go with horns.

Try the Allnic LCR phonostage £1500. It has a valve power supply. I heard it with a pair of very exotic horns.

 

Hi,

It is try that the valve phono stage needs to be quiet into high sensitive speakers. I use a Audio Innovation P2 and it is very quiet. I have also owned a Ear phono stage which worked well.


Who does the Allnic LCR phonostage? I have heard good things about it. Do you have to buy it from abroad. I would like to try a LCR phono stage at some stage.

I have seen a LCR phono stage on the DIYHIFISUPPPY website.

SCIDB

 

SCIDB can you PM me please. I know the importer.

 

'Baudrillard' (apologies for incorrect spelling) has a diy hifi supply phono stage.

I'd bet this sounds good, based on my experience of the brand.

You may want to send him a PM.

I've used an 834p with horns, and for its low outlay second hand (£300 ish) it would be similar to the second hand value of your dino.

Its quiet into horns.

 

The sensitivity of your speakers has no bearing on the desired S/N of a phono stage. This is because it is prior to the volume control.

The idea that a phono stage can be 'horn friendly' is somewhat baffling though.

Paul

 

I presume he means that it should be good enough to not be exposed by the enhanced accuracy of a good horn speaker compared with a panel Paul ;-)

 

I wouldn't qualify the 'Agathon' as a horn speaker, but there you go...

(Nice to see you embracing 'source first' at last)

Paul

 

It has a horn tweeter...

Edit: actually, it appears that they have a folded internal horn which has its mouth at the speaker base, so they are indeed a horn speaker.

Nice speakers btw, they sound much better than any other Lowther I've heard, I passed a very pleasant couple of hours listening to a pair at Walrus a few weeks back. They were using them with a Brinkmann Fein phono stage direct into a Brinkmann solid state power amp, all sounded very decent.

If you want a quiet (in terms of hiss and other noise) and excellent phono stage, you've already got one, the 47 Labs is a splendid thing IMO. Depending on cartridge it can have lots of gain though, which may be a problem with very sensitive speakers, in which case try an attenuating IC or connector.

-- Ian

 

No need unless you've got really good horns IME.

 

Amstrad XZ 550000

You'll have to pull it out of the tower though..

 

IMO there's too much direct radiation going on to consider them horns per se. But this is somewhat OT.

Point remains, the noise you experience from a phono stage is independent of the sensitivity of the speakers. The idea of a 'horn friendly' phono stage fixing things seems absurd to me, especially when the existing stage is known good.

Paul

 

Thanks for getting what I mean Stereo Mic! Thanks to all on this subject, I've learned a lot from reading this thread.

I've had an odd thing happen here, I think because my conventional speakers are upfront in presentation, I found CD a bit in my face previously even though my CD has an internal valve stage, subconciously I'd always reach for the vinyl. My conventional speakers seemed a great foil for the nature of the vinyl sound. The Agathons seem softer and more realistic, its made me rediscover the silver disc spinner.

One of them needs a new driver, this has all been sorted out nicely thanks to a nice seller, and listening with the remaining two til the new one comes I concluded just sounds a bit incohesive on one side, so I just hooked up the fully working cabinet tonight to give it a listen out of curiousity... so don't laugh. I bet you will though!
I sound like a bit of a muppet, but only heard them with soft mellow acoustic music on audition and got a bit too excited and said oh yesh!.

Tonight the sound even from one channel was staggering in detail, my amplification is on the nose at least. Theres a bit of crud stuck in the remaining DX3 though vibrating away or it could be the voicecoil, only on some stuff, I heard they're not worth servicing unless you have the precision of a welding robot, so that looks like another exchange with Lowther, but I'll limp along for the time being as I'm totally skint.

Overall I'm really pleased with the Agathons, they don't do every genre well but what they do - they do stunningly well. Listening to Joan Osbournes St Theresa brought her voice to life. The pluck of the guitar strings really added to this song, not heard that on lesser speakers, probably more how she envisaged it.

Even with the driver probs I can hear the potential is huge here. They are old ones and have Tommy Hornings own tweeter design, a DX3 and a DX4, they stand on an integral elevated resin platform for the horn to fire through, I picked them up for a reasonable price then picked them up and chugged them up 5 flights of stairs with my girlfriend! Even after a couple of replacements I still will have got a pair for way way way less than they would cost today. They don't annoy the neighbour either for some odd reason. So even with the probs I got me a bargain!

I think I need a really good phono on a relatively low budget as, on my set up the softness and warmth of vinyl through my horns just sounds a little flat compared to what I'm used to, I daresay if I plugged the Shigaraki through the JBL's it would blow my socks off. I know it can be done as my CD sounds so brilliant now - Miles Davis - Tutu being a case in point, Bent, and Zero 7, and even The Chameleons as typical spins. I think theres a zen like balance going here...

good valve amps / punchy conventional speakers/vinyl warmth and openness - nice

Detailed quality CD / good valve amps / sensitive horn speakers - nice

sensitive revealing horn speakers / wrong phono stage? / good valve amps - not so good! I think it needs to project more, and have quite a high gain as I frequently switch between phono and CD sources and don't wish to remove my eyebrows if I forget to turn the volume down after listening to the phono!

As ever thanks Dean, and hifi addict, the EARs do-able, the Anatek I like the reviews of, so we'll see...

any other thoughts?

 

The World Designs valve phono3/psu3 kit sounds like it would suit. I just built one and it's very good. Clearer and less obviously "valvey" than the Ear, but no hashness. Has loads of gain (with the optional HUGE stepups) but seems quiet, hum and noise wise.
The sound is tweakable with different makes of caps/resistors/cabling/valves too.... but I haven't got around to tweaking yet, the standard phono3 is giving me all I want from my records... for now, the thought of posher capacitors is always nagging=)

 

It is worth learning how to clean and service the Lowther units yourself and alot cheaper than sending them back to Diane. It's not that difficult if you take care. PM me if you need some advice on it.

 

For what it's worth - HiFi News is due out Friday 27th and has a group test of Phono stages - Lehmann Audio Black Cube Decade, Roksan Audio Reference DXP SE, Simaudio Moon LP5.3, Trichord Research Diablo with Never Connected PSU