Power Cable Replacement

Discussion in 'DIY Discussion' started by tom123, Dec 20, 2003.

  1. tom123

    themadhippy seen it done it smokin it

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    you can train a chimp to carry out pat testing,there is no requirment for any formal qualifacation,olny that the person carrying out the test is electrically compedent,its one of those grey areas waiting to be clarified.
    As for the period between tests it all depends on the enviroment the equipment is being used in, for most office/shop equipment 12 months is fine,in harsher enviroments you may need to test more frequently.Also its recomended that any hired electrical equipment should be tested before every hire.
    And yep i have done the city and guilds course and exam on pat testing,what a boring day that was
     
    themadhippy, Dec 21, 2003
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  2. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  3. tom123

    themadhippy seen it done it smokin it

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    no its the supply voltage thats the important bit,not the claimed insulation propetys of the cable ,if its being used in a domstic enviroment then its twice the nominal voltage for a dc test (460 volts),
    erm not heard of BASEC then ?
     
    themadhippy, Dec 21, 2003
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  4. tom123

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    poor tom, looks like he will learn the hard way:rolleyes:

    Tom, you argument is against people who have qualifications with the relevant industries, but i guess you know better cuz you read it on a website huh!



    i got C&G 236 pt 3, can i get a job please:)
     
    penance, Dec 21, 2003
    #24
  5. tom123

    tom123

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    Example

    Here I got an example of products that are CE labeld and arn't safe


    in dutch: => source: http://mineco.fgov.be/ministry/annual_report/annual_report_2001/E7_nl.htm

    Tijdens het eerste trimester werden monsters van Communauté Européenne (CE)-gemarkeerde fietshelmen voor kinderen genomen. Bovendien werd gecontroleerd of de helmen, die in de handel werden aangeboden, administratief conform de vigerende wetgeving waren. Tijdens deze actie werden 44 invoerders, groothandelaars of winkelketens bezocht. Er werden 25 stalen genomen, die voor analyse werden overgemaakt aan het Bestuur Kwaliteit en Veiligheid (E6). Naast de in staal genomen helmen werden nog eens 33 merken gecontroleerd. Er werden 5 processen-verbaal van verhoor opgesteld. In drie winkelketens werden de helmen vrijwillig uit handel genomen en aangepast aan de vigerende wetgeving.


    This article show that helmets of little children arn't always safe.
    This article gives a huge test over 44 manufacters that produces helmets for young childern (purpose: protection to head, safe to school)
    It shows that 5 manufacters have to appear to couter-law, because they have marked it with a CE label, but the product isn't safe, it is tested by the Belgium governement.
    The products are taken out from stores

    If you know somebody that can dutch-english translitations, you will see that this is true.

    Now I have prove Wadia, your wrong, addmitted it

    I am not a smart-ass, but don't act that you know everthing(WM), I'm am also learnig everyday (student)

    Comments are welcome
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  6. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Any electrical componant that we make mains cable or test rig, be it for Industry/retail or END USER, has to be CE marked, 99.9999 times out of 100 nothing proberbly won't go wrong, but if some was elelctricuted & by one of YOUR products that had no ce marking, your insurance company would dessert you faster than a m/f salesman at a PRaT convention, leaving you open to criminal and private proscution, It isn't worth the risk, even if no one was killed, your insurance company wouldn't folk for the damage either. every wonder why all electrcal appliancies come with molded plugs ? Wm
     
    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  7. tom123

    tom123

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    I am using all the info, and I want to prove the info with websites that are confident!!

    I can not scan my cursus, because it is dutch, and normally you don't understand that, because dutch is a small language


    If you however can translate dutch to english, than you will see that I got a statement that CE markings doesn't tell the whole story.
    In my example of the helmets you will see why!!

    And if you want facts, this is one!! (article about the helmets)

    It came on tv, about the helmets, so I am no lieyer


    The only thing you can say, is that I don't speak well english, I am aware of that, thank you
    But prove me if I was wrong
    with evidence
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  8. tom123

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Tom
    you cant use an article about child safety helmets in relation to this discussion. It has absolutly no relevence to electrical safety.

    You may be useing the info Tom, but you missed my point. Until you have real life experience of these tets and safety standards you really dont know enough. You could read all the websites/book you can find, but nothing will cover the lack of practical knowledge.

    Safety regulations have been in place for electrical instalation, maintainance and use for over 60 years.
    safety helmet regulations have been in place for less that a third of that time. Do the math and work out which area (electrics/child safety) has the longest experiance and knowledge of their field.

    Maybe you think WM is a smart ass, but be careful here Tom, WM has more experiebce and knowledge of these subjects than most of us will ever accumulate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2003
    penance, Dec 21, 2003
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  9. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Andy, I think thats going a bit too far :eek:, They are very knowledgable guys about, more so than I.
    Tom, do you think we spend ££££ on having equipment CE tested and certified, for the love of it? It's time consuming and not exactly cheap, however it's required By law and an awful lot of paperwork it causes too, build manual, testing houses procedures/certification documents etc, all have to be kept on record for inspection, at any time, one of the joys of joining the E.U. :) Wm
     
    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  10. tom123

    tom123

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    Yes, I understand your agreement
    but have you read my example?

    The CE marking is not 'water-proof'

    I am VERY aware that the products should be tested before selling it, this is realy important

    There are special manufacters that do one thing only, and that's testing, I have given the examples for belgium(KEMA-KEUR, CEBEC) for germany(VDE)

    Offcourse if you do modding, it isn't always legal, I am aware of that, but I'm sure that it won't causes fire, very sure.
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  11. tom123

    tom123

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    Not electrical safety, safety in particuar

    The CE marking stands for (!)manufacters(!) safety

    This is for EVERY product
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  12. tom123

    tom123

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    adding

    In the EU
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  13. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Tom, CE laws, were made my a joint committee some where Bussels I suspect not me, It's also the manufactures 'duty' to construct the product to a 'safe' standard (grey area)
    Now I would think at some time during your coarse, a section of electrical manufacturing law will come up and your tutor will go to great lengths to explain them to you, It's designed to stop the cowboys producing 'unsafe rubbish' and selling it.
    I agree CE marking isn't water tight, along with a lot of other regulations, but it's the standard that is set.
    Modding, valid point, you can fit CE approved replacement parts, if you change any thing other than the true design spec, then realisticaly ypou need to submit it for re CE ing', depends if you are the end user!
    If the end user fits the mods, then it's on his/hers own regonenaice. more furvently, Its's the RFI emmisons that are more likely to peak the interest of a CE tester (clock mods being one of them) if they generate more than limit set in the CE Test.
    The same can be said for power chords, I can have a CE approved Plug IEC end and a CE approved UK mains plug, if the wire isn't CE approved it's nulled, the wire can be sold no probs, it can be used for carring electrical current, tow a car, making a noose non discript, soon as you designate a purpose, then the CE test is appiliable.
    Also if you change the design of goods, Ie fit a different a/c socket say from fig of 8 to IEC, then inreality you could say it needs another CE test, although a self certification (by design) could also be applicable, grey areas abound, Not trying to be a kill joy at all, I'm all for new idea's and products, but when you deal with mains Tom, it's a different ball game. Wm
     
    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  14. tom123

    tom123

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    it's true

    Thank you for your answer.

    I know working with voltages from 230V can be dagerous, I'am aware of that.

    I am an electrical student and if have to knowledge to make a safe well designed power cord.

    I know the responsibillity to make this cord, is for me.

    I use a speaker cable for a mians cable, it's not desined for that but from materials point of view, this cable can.

    I am aware that I am responisble for this.

    I have tested it, if you want to drain 10amperes to this cable, it will do, more I am not sure, depends on the lenght and the connectors.

    I am using it tomorow on my brothers xbox, I think the imprvement will be huge.

    One thing: I have this cable as speaker cable on studio monitors from Acoustic Research and the effect was much lager as a mains cable than on a speaker cable
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  15. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Tom, I have no doubt that the power chord will make a difference :) although some may disagree :D , you could start by looking at why YOU think there is an improvement in what you hear, is it more current delivery?, less RFI (better shilelding), or the fact that the xboxs SMPS may simply couple better with the juice now being suppiled ?.
    FWIW I believe firmly in aftermarket power productors, not just cables, and I wouldn't have my system sounding as 'right' as it does without them. Wm
     
    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  16. tom123

    tom123

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    I haven"t tested on the xbox yet.

    On my amplifier made it a huge difference.
    First I was using a the supplied power cord, then I switched to a OFC cable 2.5mm2, that didn't make a noticable difference.

    When I changed the cable to the Vandenhul, the difference was huge, the cable is 4m though.

    I just tested this cable on a old sony radio type: CFD-110L
    cost approximatly $250 (ten years ago)
    My Vandenhul cable that I make didn't make a difference there, the cable that I maked was 2m long.

    I hope it will make a difference on my brothers Xbox.
    If there is no benefit on the X, it will sure be a benefit on my brothers stereo, it's power hungry 2x130w RMS, cost aproximatly $450.

    Hope it will make a difference on the Xbox

    Please tell me, is there is benefit on a good power cord on a CD-player??

    Please let me know.
    Tomorow I test my cable on a Numark CD-player in a hifi-shop, whe gonna see what it gives, hopefly there is noticable difference.

    Keep me in touch, thx
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
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  17. tom123

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    Tom, I'll be honest here sir, we (Omiga Audio) manufacture audio cables, so I do understand the benefits (although you have to repsect some don't, buts thats hifi, and if we all agreed, then it would be boring).
    A cd player, will benefit from a cable swop (my personal view) on the mains side, just how much depends on the cable used , the player, the room etc, I personaly use 'our own' power cables, having tried one or 2 ;) although my player use ingenious mains decoupling circuitry, it's pickky on power cables, so players like heavily screen cables as opposed to big current taps, most cd players draw little more than 30w max ???, but remember any equipment with a clock (crystal shaker) generates rfi like a fountain, so anything that can be done to minimise this and or reduce other sources of emmissions that may cause degregation of the signal is worth while seeking out in my book. Wm
     
    wadia-miester, Dec 21, 2003
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  18. tom123

    tom123

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    I was thinking to screen the cable applied to the X, but since Xbox itself isn't really shielded, it will not optimmaly benefit from it I think.

    My 'trick' for shielding a cable is to alu foil and then crimp on it, I have also tried with tape double adhesive, but there comes cracks when you bent it.

    Does annybody knows how much Watt an Xbox draws out of the mains?

    I will test it tomorow on it.

    I keep my fingers crossed...

    Comments are welcome
     
    tom123, Dec 21, 2003
    #38
  19. tom123

    tom123

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    I have tested the cable on the numark CD-player, there was a small difference.

    Before I test it on the X, I let the cable run in for a while, the sound is a bit ultra-sonic, and not plesant to listen at, listening fatigue etc (high tones seem to overrule in the beginning)

    After 48hr/s of use on my integtrated amp, the sound with my first cable improved hugly. (the high freq sound was gone)

    I keep you in touch
     
    tom123, Dec 22, 2003
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  20. tom123

    tom123

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    update

    I have let the cable run in for a while, now I can hear difference in the sound

    The difference after 24hr/s I think were minimal and you couldn't really hear it.

    Now the cable has run in for 48hr/s and there's a difference;

    The bass is little punchier, when there is bass the treble didn't get compressesd like whith a supplied power cord
     
    tom123, Dec 23, 2003
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