Quad 77 preamp mods

Discussion in 'DIY Discussion' started by zanash, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. zanash

    zanash

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    So after a long period of no changes, following the removal of the dreaded muting transistors. I've had a long hard look at the curcuit and though quite complexed each incoming signal is buffer[?] via two sets of opa275 arround the switching section to feed to the eq section then to another opa275 and the chip vol pot then either to the bus [balanced output] or the phono sockets ...

    there suprisingly little in the way of descrete components in the signal path ....a couple of caps and a few resistors [more of which later] So having just recieved some samples opamps from TI I thought lets drop one in to see how they sound.

    First I remove the opa275 [the third one before the vol pot, ic50] and fitted a top notch socket. Dropped in the new opamp [opa2107] reassembled...

    sound before was ok but would never win any prizes a bit dull and undemanding slightly slow ?

    Well the new opamp is fast and lively better seperation[imaging] dynamics in spades [bringing it up to normal levels ?]...

    the units been on for half a cd and is still getting sweater ......

    So what next ......

    I don't feel inclined to drop all the opamps [20 ish] may be I'll do the two in the switching section .....
    So what else ? well the little diode bridges look an obvious candidates for a schottky bridge [made from 11dq10's]. The two blocking caps 10uf 35v in the signal path before the cs3310 vol pot are to be replaced with a pair of huge 4uf 200v pio's that have just arrived ....if they will fit in the case. These are the size of a 4 stacked cream crackers

    as an a side a pair of these where shoehorned into the output of a entech 203 and have just turned a into a stonkingly good sounding dac. Its odd this dac was not fitted with dc blockers ? I also fitted shottky diodes and a dale vishay resistors too and a full suite of bypass caps to muse electrolytics. Sound before was ok a bit edgy and lacking in life, following the mods was smooth fluid agile. Infact better than my Quad 99cdp own dac [bugger]
     
    zanash, Nov 2, 2006
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  2. zanash

    cylinvan

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    I just wish I understood a fraction of the technical stuff you talk about. Boy, do I envy your knowledge!
    Good on ya!
    I will post some update on some cable and interconnects I made. one thing is for sure - you get us thinking. Thanks.
     
    cylinvan, Nov 2, 2006
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  3. zanash

    felix part-time Horta

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    Unless you really want to, I wouldn't try to shoehorn huge caps in where the previous part fit . Reason being, the extra 'loop' area - if there is a transformer etc in the case - will be prone to noise pickup. Better to use a compact film type, even if that mean a slightly smaller value eg 3.3uF.

    I'm not up to speed with the CS3310, but I would look at reducing PSU noise if poss, these things don't usually have great PSRR. There may be other hints in the datasheet about getting the best performance out of the part (ie bypassing, dealing with capacitive loads etc)

    HTH!
     
    felix, Nov 4, 2006
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  4. zanash

    zanash

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    Hi

    yes I agree hence the schottky mods ....

    the big cap will sit over the area of the current electrolytics and I wire with the shortest silver link .....the caps will sit on a foam base and when the base plate is fitted this will hold them snuggly.

    I appreciate the extra wire require could have an effect ...but when I've used this method before the gains normally far out weight the disadvantages ...but as always its a suck it and see.

    If it sounds worse I'll revert or use the best electrolytics I can.
     
    zanash, Nov 5, 2006
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  5. zanash

    Tenson Moderator

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    Talking of PIO vs electrolytic, this may be of interest.

    http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html

    I’m not surprised Naim has a house sound when they use tantalum in the signal path (I presume without biasing them or it would blow stuff up!)
     
    Tenson, Nov 7, 2006
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  6. zanash

    zanash

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    yes ..thats a very interesting article .....

    my pio's are off fleabay ex russian military surplus

    I was a bit warry to start with but have had no problem with dealing with a couple of chaps via paypal .....


    the pio's seem at least as good as some older nos uk types I've got ...
     
    zanash, Nov 7, 2006
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  7. zanash

    felix part-time Horta

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    Actually when properly biased tantalum caps are pretty good. Naim use them on all their single-rail stages, where the dc-blocking function provides the necessary bias.The tant caps alone certainly isn't the source of the 'naim house sound' IMO - look to their gain block design, bandwidth-limiting and PSU arrangement details for that.
     
    felix, Nov 7, 2006
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  8. zanash

    zanash

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    but they do put tants in the signal path.....for me thats a no no !

    but yes agree with you totally.

    Tants in the right places are great too.....
     
    zanash, Nov 7, 2006
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  9. zanash

    zanash

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    So can any one tell me why I've only just swapped the nasty bipolars out the signal path ?

    Swapping in a set of 4uf 160v pio's ....each the size of 4 jacobs stacked cream crackers... signal jumped off board and back with my AgAu.

    Bass is now diaphram vibrating even at my normal listen levels... its never done that before. The image is now far sharper ...can't use the lathed cd [as uncle ants has it currently] but this is an absoulute no brainer if your running the aged 77 pre....puts into shadow everything else. Its twice as good as the opamp mod !

    I just can't believe how much those bipolars screw the music signal.
     
    zanash, Nov 9, 2006
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