Records you really love; or hate

This stems from a rather lame discussion about Glenn Gould. We all seemed more or less in agreement, so it just seemed to fade.

But his Summitship suggested we start a thread about interpreters we like or hate. I though if we could restrict it to particular records it would be easier.

I know many of us have already stated their opinions (Still Tones Vespers, for instance). But let's give it a try.

Your move.

 

I hate almost anything conducted by that man - Bernard Haitink.

Probably my least favourite major Strauss tone poem is Ein Heldenleben...possibly because the recording I grew up with was his 1970 Concertgebouw recording (bought in an attempt to get something not by HvK), and I would never have more than one recording of anything until a year or two ago.

I love Vaughan Williams' London (2nd) Symphony, but never played it at home because I always got bored rigid about half way through - the LPO on EMI under.....that man again. I finally got a recording that thrilled me to the end last year - the Hickox 'original' version (OK, so some people think it sounds more like wannabe Mahler that RVW, but I love it - I'm gutted I'm away on holiday when Hickox gives a live performance of it this November). I've now also inherited the Previn/LSO/RCA LP I first got to love this music on, so I'm sorted there (or I will be when I get the TT working again).

So why have I already got tickets to see "that man" FIVE times next year (last being 2nd Nov 2004!!!!) - because unfortunately they always push him out in front of the best orcehstras in the world (Concertgebouw, VPO, Dresden, BPO...) when playing the best music (in this case Mahler 3&9, Shostakovich 8, Bruckner 9, Beethoven 7).

I will give you though, that what I've heard of his Ravel and Debussy are pretty good - I guess it takes his control-freakery to keep some shape to this fairly diaphanous music.

 

Funny you hate Haitink. He is very cool, but that can be a blessing, sometimes. I listened to some Mahler (I think it was the fifth) that went on quite well.

But then I like fugues...

Your thoughts on Bernstein?

 

...and on.....and on.....and :zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

Mahler's 5th was also something it took me a long time to get to love (unlike 1/2/6/9) - although I can't really put that down to that man....I just find it a rather bitty piece, great in places but takes something special to seem more than the sum of the parts. I think Bernstein does that (we actually did reactions to Bernstein on GH). And I know there were plenty who hated it, but I thought Daniele Gatti and the RPO really made it live (albeit with lashings of olio d'olivo and pasta) last year at the proms.

On the other hand, what I've heard of Rattle (Mahler 2 & 7 on CD) leaves me rather cold - concentration on the details at the expense and detriment of the big picture. Thought his Haydn (heard him last Tuesday with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment) much better than his Mahler and Bruckner. I did like his NYO performance of Mahler 8 though, although it wasn't in the same class as Tennstedt.

(And, since I've just found my previous diatribe from GH on other betes noires

I recently bought a copy of Turandot and was dismayed to see another one of mine on the cast list....Peter Pears :yikes: (fortunately it's a pretty minuscule role - no more than about 10 lines - but those were agony :inferno: ). Made a career of sounding like he was being strangled by his own over-tight underpants. Even worse, the British musical establishment wet themselves over him so much an entire generation of tenors ruined themselves trying to sound like him too (Robert Tear, Stuart Burrows....). At least the period authenticists did something right by breaking that mould. (Oh and Dudley Moore did a wonderfully wicked impression of him in "Beyond the Fringe" - Little Miss Britten)

And for someone with lots more of their career yet to inflict on us Evgeny Kissin :gatling: - the Naim/Krell (delete as required) of classical piano - incredibly agile/fast, but pounds it out with the subtlety of a sledgehammer (I have no recordings by him, and after hearing him murder Brahms' 2nd concerto last year I doubt I will)

 

My favorite violinist: Henryk Szeryng. Especially on the Bach unaccompanied sonata & partita, and on the LvB violin concerto, I don't feel a need to listen to other performances... I also like Kyung-wha Chung very much (not to be nationalistic or anything ).

Who do I hate? Good question! I actively hate Itzak Perlmann. I admit that he got good technique and beautiful tone, but can't help feeling that he uses music to show off his tone, rather than the other way around.

Joongul

 

Well, i will be honest, i have actually found it difficult to answer this teaser....... I have only been listening to classical music for a couple of years, and that conjoined with my tender years makes it difficult to make an assessment of the merits, or lack of, of various conductors/performers. I know this question is a subjective one, but even so, it is not all that easy, and more diffficult still to try and qualify any statements which i am bold enough to make.

The fact is, there is much of the repertory i am still to discover, despite having trawled through masses of different works already. Try catching up with 400+ years of music. And those many which i have sampled thus far, have in most cases only been heard via a single interpretation. There are indeed examples of works, where i have more than one version, and amongst those i have my favourites, but to be honest, i am struggling to think of something which i reallly hate, at least within the confines of particular interpretations as opposed to composers.

I think until a thourough understanding and appreciation of a composers works is attained it is difficult to try and assess both objetively and in this case subjectively the differing interpretations. And i will be honest again. In many instances the differences between two renditions are sometimes only slight, at least to my uneducated ears. Not every comparison is as night and day as say Gould/Perahia doing the Goldbergs. So my first obstacle on the road of classical discovery has been to try and determine which of the composers works i like/dislike as opposed to which interpretations i favour most. The former IMO most definitely matures before the latter. Does this make any sense?

So in conclusion, there are as yet, no interpretations which i hate. and have in fact enjoyed the majority of discs or broadcasts i have ever heard thus far. If you asked me which composers i hate, perhaps i could contribute further. In fact, maybe i will be bold enough to whisper in your ear that for the life of me, i just cannot get on with Mahler (Arms thrown up in the air in disgust at the ramblings of this philistine ). In particular i have been playing Rattles 5th which is a nice recording, but inevitably just sends me to sleep - which i suppose is a bit ironic with Mahler?

So apologies for my non-contribution, but i am learning new material all the time, and hopefully with the added injestion of wisdom from these sacred pages, my journey will be both facilitated and accelerated.

Oh....i nearly forgot...i hate our jazzy friend Jaques, as mentioned in another thread, but then i suppose that is not really what you had in mind. But thus far, he is the only one to offend my ears.

Oh...nearly forgot again this is a love as well as hate thread? In that case, i will try to surprise you fellas. I love Bronislaw Huberman - particularly his Beethoven concerto (of which coincidentally i have many versions). I know, inevitably, the recordings are very old, and the recording quality is rarely earth shattering, but this does not detract from what to me is some of the most lush violin playing to ever grace my music maker.


Many thanks

 

I'd like to say, anything in which Robert Tear sings, but I can't because they include Gardiner's first Monteverdi Vespers (one of the many benefits of the live San Marco version is that he's not there) and Charles Mackerras's otherwise brilliant "Messiah". I like to think that nobody else was available on those recording days.

 

Like minds :JPS:

 

Just bought an absolutlely amazing recording of Paganini's first violin concerto, and Wienawski's D minor one by Michael Rabin, this is truly awesome. Jascha Heifitz playing the Tchaikowsky is equally stunning to my mind. I love to bits David Oistrach's recording of the same piece and also Pierre Fournier playing the Bach Cello Suites.
As for chamber music I love to hear the Vermeer Quartet, particularly their recording of the Schubert G major. nobody quite understands the harmonic tension of that piece quite like them.
Joongul have you listened to any other recordings of those pieces? Henryk Szerying is indeed a very fine violinist, but he isn't the most personality laden one. Have heard some recordings of him playing live, he plays everything very perfectly with a wonderful tone, but somehow I have always found his playing a little cold.

 

Hi lordsummit,

I sort of understand your comment about Szeryng not strong on personality. I suppose that his interpretation is more or less "by the book" and often on the slow side. What I really love about his playing is that his bowing technique seems very special, and with the technique he is able to put a lot of emotion to each note he plays. Compared to other violinists his playing seems more articulate and he seems to have finer control of dynamics on each note (sorry for the hi-fi geek talk but with my limited English skill this is the best I can do...). His style may not work very well on Mozart or late Romatics but I find that it works superbly on Bach, LvB and Brahms.

Admittedly I haven't heard much Bach other than Szeryng - Grumiaux, Hahn, Chung and Kuijken I guess. I have heard a fair share of LvB Concerto though - Oistrach, Heifetz, Francescatti, Menuhin, Chung, Kreisler, Grumiaux, Mutter, Szigetti and maybe more. Still I prefer Szeryng so far - but then it was the first LvB concerto recording I heard so it occupies a special place in my heart.

I also love Fournier's Bach you mentioned, and Wispelwey does a great job too. Somehow I never got to accept Heifetz (a bit too showy for my taste) but I don't give up easily. I'll try to explore the other performances you and other folks mentioned here - at least "love" part

Joongul

 

Not really answering the thread question but I remember being very disappointed with Earl Wilde's performance of Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto

I'd heard him give a recital at the Wigmore and thought him such an exciting performer so went out and got the 2 CD set of all the Rachmaninov concertos + Variations on a theme by Paganini.

At the time I already had the Ashkenazy versions (with the Concertgebouw, and still my favourite) but no harm in having a second set

Hmm, what a let down. Really doesn't make the music happen for me at all. And the real killer for me (for any performance of Rachmaninov 3) is if the pianist plays the alternative (easier) cadenza in the 1st movement. Wilde plays it Allthough Rachmaninov wrote two versions, it's clear to me which one he would have played The bigger and bolder one is just so "right" and IMO one of the highlights of the piece that I just can't hear a version with the "wimpy" version anymore.

Michael.

 

Since I seem to have only posted on bugbears so far - I ought to post some of the recordings I love. Too many to do justice to, but here's a few:

Martha Argerich/Chailly/BRSO (live) doing Rach Pf 3 on Philips 50, and even more so the 2nd piano suite that's coupled with it (Argerich/Freire) - the electricity in the playing is palpable, even if the sound quality is not quite top-drawer.

Wand/BPO (live) doing Bruckner 4 (RCA) - I love the way he constructs those wonderful climaxes and keeps the lyricism going when they're at warp factor 11.8! And how each note fits in perfectly to the single 70 minute structure - suits me!

Abbado/BPO (live) doing Mahler 3 (DG) - according to the reviews this didn't catch the electricity and tension of the actual event (RFH - Dec 1998); well in that case I'm sure I would have exploded or passed out having forgotten to breathe for half and hour. I've heard a few recordings and performances of this and always known this symphony was over 100 minutes long - but not with this one. I first played it one Saturday afternoon - and before I realised it it was nearly evening! Stunning!

Du Pre/Barbirolli + Baker/Barbirolli Elgar Cello Concerto and Sea Pictures (EMI) - Edwardian fin-de-siecle with such utter commitment you're swept away.

Pinnock/English Concert Handel Water Music and Concerto a Due Cori No 2 (Archiv) - brilliant baroque bounce. I've not heard anything from them in the 80s that isn't brilliant - although...

Biondi/Europa Galante doing Scarlatti "Sinfonie and Concerti" (Virgin Veritas) has a precision, drive and attack that's quite breathtaking, with a winning delicacy when necessary too. Never heard these by anyone else so don't know how mainstream the interpretation is. Nice contrast in a couple of the symphonies here with the Mahler - approx 2 minutes vs 98 (ah, I see now...that's quicker than many)!

Hynninen and Haggander/Panula/Gothenburg Sibelius Orchestral Songs (BIS) - maybe a bit too much Nordic melacholy for a full CD, but I don't think I've ever heard more soulful and heartfelt baritone singing than from Jorma Hynninen here, particularly in "Koskenlaskian mosiammet" (how's your Finnish? - and Haggander's mezzo's not far behind him.

Vanska/Lahti Sibelius 1 & 4 (BIS) - The Sib 4 is very slow, but they extract every bit of desolation from the wonderfully bleak piece, without tearing it apart (which is what the Karajan does for me) and they even make Sib 1 sound good!

Carlos Kleiber/VPO, Beethoven 5 & 7 (DG Originals) - have the finales of these oft-played pieces ever been give such electricity? And the 7th Allegretto has almost the intensity of the Eroica funeral march.

Can't choose between Gundula Janowitz/Karajan (DG) and Jessye Norman/Masur (Philips) for Strauss Four Last Songs - so I'll have both. Janowitz has that glorious lush and silky tone that bathes everything in a warm glow whereas Norman goes for the dark, rich and sultry - and very, very slow for "Im Abendrot". (I'm not a fan of Schwarzkopf in pretty much anything)

Takacs Quartet Beethoven Rasumovsky Quartets (Decca) - all the musical personality of the Lindseys, with the polish of the Bergs - can't wait for the remainder of their cycle.

And almost anything by John Adams conducting his own music (e.g. Harmonium and the Klinghoffer Choruses - Nonesuch). Precision, magic, life and shape - what else do you need?

 

I'll first state some of my detested records. I'd like to say Gould comes first, but he doesn't. I will confine myself to Bach.

The worse ever Bach I listened to was Rosalynd Tureck's. It as one of her several Goldbergs. Brittle, horrible, structureless, morose, irritating - what the French call agaçant - and rigid.

How that record came to be reveered I will never know. My personal opinion is that most critics know nothing about Bach's music except that it is complex, and when they listen to something they don't understand at all but seems austere and skeleton-like, they just jump to the conclusion that the performer must be getting something they don't. They grow embarrassed and say the performer is a genius, in order to show ordinary people that they belong to the very few initiated who really know – that's disgusting, but then most 'artistic' fads are disgusting.

A very close second is Gould's WTC I. I have stated elsewhere that the first time I listened to it I was with a friend. The first three Pfs were so strange and then the beginning of the 4th fugue so utterly counter-intuitively played that we stopped the record and reached for the partition. We hypothesized that he would play legato when we would expect staccato, fast when one would expect slow and that kind of thing. To be brief, we examined the salient points, made out how they would 'naturally' be played and then turned to the record, expecting him to do the exact opposite. We were right about 85% of the time… I think that says it all, really: just a perverse personality with a good understanding of music and a twisted desire to make it different. And pardon me for saying so: concerning Bach, I really am in the know. So Gould doesn't fool me. Period. (Arrogant bastard, you are thinking. Perhaps, but I do take music seriously). :clint:

The Partitas are about the same kind of stuff. Truly horrible. Consider the magnificent 6th, and the opening toccata. That is supposed to be flowing, not played note by note… Horrible, plain childish.

Those records really irritate me, because critics always seem to get excited every time someone plays the monkey at the keyboard with Bach. There is an excellent saying in French: 'il fait ça pour épater le bourgeois': it translates more or less to 'he does it in order to impress the feeble minded'. I really think critics are, for the most part, frustrated and incapable musicians. Remember Chiricco's (the painter; the spelling may be wrong) words: 'les critiques d'art ne servent à rien' - the art critics are good for nothing. There, I vented my intense wrath!!

I strongly dislike most of Andreas Staier's records. His Bach partitas are just motoric; he plays all the repeats (boring!!!) and is just fast and rather brutal. I admit I may be wrong. Perhaps he is just not my kind of musician. His Chromatic fantasy is just fast: I find no emotion there. Most critics also went berserk with him.

Now, let me mention an interpreter I respect that made the worse possible version of the sonatas and partitas for solo violin (Bach's, of course): I mean Monica Huggett. She said she tried a musicaal approach, and not a spectacular one. Well, she stresses every note, every motif, every phrase. The result is plain monotony and confusion, a total lack of structure and a very unpleasant experience (I suffer when I see honest musicians fail).

Another horror by a player I respect is the recent version of the harpsichord Partitas by Blandine Verlet. She always takes a lot of risks, and she has a very emotional view of music. In some pieces (for instance, the b moll minor PF of WTC.I) that can be rather wonderful. In the partitas all you get is chaos, rather like if a gust of strong and irregular wind pushed the phrases, in an irregular fashion. Subjective, yes. But quite unlistenable.

I'm very sorry for both Huggett and Verlet (even the critics recognized they were poor verions). They took risks, dared to play it differently, and failed. But every serious attempt to make music is worthy of applause and appreciation. I don't really know if people understand how difficult it is to play something. I don't mean the technical difficulty, that is just acquired habit and hard work. I mean the effort of putting a piece together, of understanding it, of conveying it to others. So I very seldom say bad things about a record. When I think the musician is not trying to play music, but just showing himself off, I'll be hard. That is the case, I think, both with Tureck and Gould. Not of Huggett and Verlet. Verlet has a lot of good – all bordering on madness, but quite impressive – records. Let's just forget this one: a moment of weekness; it only makes those superpersons more human.

There are a lot of records I don't like. Most of them skipped my memory, because I offered them to people I don't particularly like.


I'll have much more to say about records that I like.

P.S.: I din't use any smilies, and I really should have done it. Try to read what I wrote not in a passionate and warlike voice, but just as the expression of someone that shouldn't really be writing this stuff but working of practicing. There: One smilie.

Edited to add some smilies. The clint one couldn't be more approprioate!

:gould: :gatling: :RdS: