reducing decay of kick drum

Discussion in 'Pro Audio' started by attack_release, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. I'm in the process of recording a demo for a metal band. The one
    problem I'm having is that the kick track (mic'd with a D112) has a lot
    of decay on it. It sounds okay during slower parts, but during the
    faster, double bass parts it turns washy. I've tried compression and
    gating but I could use some advice of keeping the initial impact and
    eliminating most of the ring. I've also tried a shelf EQ but that zaps
    too much low end. Any suggestions? I'm using Cubase SX.
    Thank you.

    attack_release, Sep 7, 2006
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  2. attack_release

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Stop compressing it so much. If you aren't compressing it, try expanding
    it a bit, or gate it so it chops the tail off.

    You may want to actually ride the gate threshold during the mix, so it's
    chopping off more in the fast parts than in the slow parts.
    Scott Dorsey, Sep 7, 2006
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  3. attack_release

    Ryan Eibling Guest

    If it's that problematic it might be easier to just replace it with a
    sample. KTrigger and BFD are my drum replacement tools of choice when
    it's necessary.
    Ryan Eibling, Sep 7, 2006
  4. Well, compression will make it worse. So don't do that.
    What DOES the bass drum sound like? Maybe it needs tuning tighter or
    another blanket inside the shell. Or a different drum
    Laurence Payne, Sep 7, 2006
  5. attack_release

    animix Guest

    I think one upon a time, somewhere in the universe, someone made a plugin
    that functioned like an SPL Transient Designer. I've got the hardware TD
    unit and it will certainly do the job.
    animix, Sep 7, 2006
  6. attack_release

    vdubreeze Guest

    If the drummer or anyone else isn't up to the task, hire a drum tech to
    come in and tune it. maybe advise on a different type of head for
    recording, especially if it's their live kit, where it probably sounds
    fine. I find that if the drum isn't right for the session (its size
    or head) I sometimes spend too much time tuning or adding/taking away
    muffling that I should have spent waiting for another drum to arrive.

    That said, I used to have a bit of luck using a huge, marching band
    sized round muffler, around the size of a frying pan. Looked odd, but
    you could touch the head very lightly and that's sometimes all it
    needs. Wish I still had it! Put a tiny pillow on a boom stand and
    have it just graze the head.
    vdubreeze, Sep 7, 2006
  7. Thanks for all of the suggestions. The drums were already tracked so
    re-tracking was not an option. Also, the kick was all over the place
    dynamically which made everything worse. I tried the KTrigger that
    Ryan suggested and I must say, it worked perfectly. Thanks!

    attack_release, Sep 7, 2006
  8. attack_release

    Paul Stamler Guest

    Put a blanket in it.

    Paul Stamler, Sep 7, 2006
  9. I find this sort of thing so sad.
    Laurence Payne, Sep 7, 2006
  10. I don't think it's sad at all. He's learned from his mistake, I'm sure. And
    the bright side is that he didn't have to scrap everything. We all made
    mistakes when we were first starting out, Lawrence... Or maybe you were born
    with good engineering skills?
    Romeo Rondeau, Sep 7, 2006
  11. Why don't you just help him out with his problem instead of calling him
    Romeo Rondeau, Sep 7, 2006
  12. It's sad that we're discussing turd-polishing.
    Laurence Payne, Sep 7, 2006
  13. Oh, he'll still have to record players who can't play. And he may
    well have the skills to burnish the result until it gleams. I just
    think it's sad.
    Laurence Payne, Sep 7, 2006
  14. Well, this was the first time I've recorded a kit other than my own and
    I've learned to keep these things in check. Please don't hate me
    because my kicks good. I think triggering was the best solution, I
    tried everything else that I was able to.

    attack_release, Sep 7, 2006
  15. He learned what to listen for to avoid having to trigger the kick just to
    I hear you, you just have to keep in mind that it's exciting to a lot of
    people, so they want to get into it. They all have to start somewhere (we
    all sucked when we first started) and I struggle to be patient with noobies,
    too. Now, here's the real question... have I ever done drum replacement? You
    bet your ass I have, certain styles of music demand it. Have I done it when
    there wasn't a problem with the drum sound like in the OP question? You bet.
    Do I know how to get a good drum sound without it? Yes on that one as well.
    It all depends on what style of music you are recording as to whether or not
    you use it, it's just a tool just like everything else in your studio. As
    for Autotune, I use it when it's called for. Some of this new "angry chick
    punk band" stuff requires it. You can't nail the national sound without it,
    and if that's what my clients want, I give it to them. Nowadays, there is a
    growing number of songs out there where the harmony line is generated from
    Celemony's Melodyne. If that's what the client wants, it's what I give them.
    A guy who records jazz or bluegrass or blues is gonna scoff at all of this,
    that's fine... I wouldn't dream of using any of this stuff on those types of
    music, it's not part of the style... but you can't paint all musical styles
    with the same brush, when you do that you aren't working for your client,
    you are feeding your own head (which don't necessarily put food on the
    table) I'm not so much saying this for you as much as making a statement
    that the whole group needs to read. New music is not necessarily bad music,
    it's just new and a little different. The methods used to produce it are a
    little different. You can either adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs, it's
    everybody's choice to make. It's so easy to stand back and say "that ain't
    music" to anything new, but for the most part change is good. Musicianship
    has never been the sole focus in music, if it were we wouldn't have some of
    the greats of our time. Picture a world without the Beatles, or Hank
    Williams, or Led Zepplin. A very sad world indeed. Someday, the Good
    Charlottes and the Green Days will be the "old school"
    Romeo Rondeau, Sep 8, 2006
  16. attack_release

    0junk4me Guest

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    NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 10:15:45 EDT
    Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
    Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:15:45 GMT

    FIrst I'd suggest actually attempting to tune and muffle the
    kick drum to solve this before I'd try signal processing.
    IF that doesn't work then go for the signal processing.

    A properly tuned and muffled kick drum is the real solution
    here as suggested elsewhere in this thread.
    AS another poster suggests, I"m betting this is his live
    kit, and it sounds good on the bandstand, but doesn't record
    so great.

    A lot of drummers at the weekend warrior level really aren't
    that expert at tuning their kits properly for recording.
    sOlve that one first, and touch it with less processing.

    Richard webb,
    Electric Spider Productions
    Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
    email address.
    0junk4me, Dec 2, 2008
  17. attack_release

    0junk4me Guest

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    NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:05:52 EDT
    Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
    Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:05:52 GMT

    I have to agree with Lawrence here. Indeed, the op may have
    learned a few things which will stand him in good stead for
    his next sessions. HOwever I don't know why musicians with
    no preparation think they're ready to record these days.
    Don't bother to learn to tune those drums properly, they can
    replace 'em with triggered samples. DOn't bother to learn
    how to sing, there's autotune.

    I've recorded some of the shittiest drummers I"ve herad in
    the metal and alternative genres. IMproperly tuned kits, no
    dynamics, etc. etc.

    wHen our project is complete we'll bring the rig in the
    truck to the show, record, hand media to client and let
    somebody else worry about the turd polishing. OF course if
    the drummer's kit isn't good for recording I"ll tell him/her
    that it needs work, but if they choose not to put in the
    work we'll just record the performance and let a pro tools
    guy polish the turds and roll to the next gig.

    Richard webb,
    Electric Spider Productions
    Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
    email address.

    "In some hands, all the knobs are suck knobs." -- Jay Kadis
    0junk4me, Dec 2, 2008
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