Reel to Reel

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by Anex, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    Thinking about getting a tape machine as I want something analogue for late night listening that doesn't require me to turn over the side or stop at the end if I fall asleep. Don't really know that much about them though, can anyone give me any links/info?
    Mainly I'm interested in which models to look for etc. I guess most of the brands are the same companies doing digi recording stuff now, Otari, Fostex etc.
    Also info on tapes and spares, don't want to end up with something obscure where I can't get any tape for it and if I could get hold of spare motors etc. incase it burns out, that sort of thing.
    Might be a silly question but do they have auto stop? :) Track marking points (like with ADAT, DAT etc.)? And would they all be XLR only and need me to make a convertor to use in unbalanced mode?

    Thanks in advance :) Oh and if anyone knows of anything going I maybe interested in a few weeks
     
    Anex, Nov 7, 2005
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  2. Anex

    Paul Ranson

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    Revox A77 or B77.

    AFAIK tape is tape. Any sensible machine will shut off the takeup spool and capstan when the tape runs through. Revox as above will be single ended domestic levels. Track marking, I don't think so. You have to decide whether you want '4 track' which means with a stereo machine you can turn the tape over and use the other half, much like a cassette, or '2 track' which has better quality but uses twice as much tape. Similarly for speed, 3.75ips, 7.5ips, 15ips would be common speeds, a straight trade of time against quality.

    Although I think you'd be better off falling asleep to an iPod or Squeezebox. Or your VHS.

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Nov 7, 2005
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  3. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    Thanks Paul. I was thinking 2 track, mainly interested in quality as its kind of a replacement for my CD player which doesn't even live in the rack anymore.
    Part of wanting one is they're pretty cheap on ebay and I like the fiddle factor of a big clunky tape machine.
     
    Anex, Nov 7, 2005
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  4. Anex

    domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance

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    Paul has a point though - NICAM VHS in SP is fairly decent and you can get 4 or even 5 hours on at that speed...

    I'm on the hunt for a quarter track Revox though - got given loads of tapes and have nothing to play them on :)
     
    domfjbrown, Nov 7, 2005
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  5. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    I have a load of audio on VHS, doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the tape machines I've heard. Which isn't suprising pricing considered. Its not 'a thing to fall asleep to' its more 'incase I fall asleep' and like I said, replace my CD player (pretty much) so it still has to sound as good as I can get.
    I've found tascam do a machine with markers etc. Looks like a nice unit but not sure if I can stretch to paying for one.
     
    Anex, Nov 7, 2005
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  6. Anex

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    TEAC X3, X6, X7R

    I used to have an X3. Nice machine. A mate had an X7R. Very nice.

    Akai - forget the 4000DS but any of their GS/GX range are good.

    Tandberg - any - the X10 is stunning
     
    technobear, Nov 7, 2005
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  7. Anex

    bogbloke

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    Ive got an Akai 4000DS Mk1 version. However needs some TLC to get it working again.
     
    bogbloke, Nov 7, 2005
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  8. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    why whats wrong with them?
     
    Anex, Nov 7, 2005
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  9. Anex

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    It was always the budget option. Clunky to use. Not up with the best for signal to noise ratio. You can do much better for not much more. The TEAC X3 is a joy to use with full logic operation, auto-stop, electronic speed control and it sounds good (though not in the same class as a Revox B77 but then they cost rather more). Sony made a few decent tape decks but some of the cheaper ones weren't so hot.

    If I had the room, I'd track down one of these just because they look so cool (they are very good too):
     

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    technobear, Nov 7, 2005
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  10. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    are they any good though? The old technics cassette deck I had wasn't bad for the money but not the 'CD like sound' it was supposed to have. Which is possibly good but possibly bad too. And they said it had Dolby B and C music reduction like it was a good thing

    EDIT: The words (they are very good too): should have given that away.

    Does anyone know of anywhere to buy other than ebay?
     
    Anex, Nov 7, 2005
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  11. Anex

    domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance

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    Oh god - I could have had one of these from Crack Convertors in Exeter for £99, back in 1999; I wish to god I'd put a deposit down on it :(
     
    domfjbrown, Nov 8, 2005
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  12. Anex

    leonard smalls GufmeisterGeneral

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    I've got a Revox PR99, bit like this one but complete with 10" metal reels:
    [​IMG]
    It's an ex BBC radio 3 machine, fully lined up and great sounding - used to be used to transmit from...
    You won't get much better this side of a Studer A8. Does 7.5 and 15ips (1 hour and 1/2 hour per 10" tape) as standard, with internal dipswitches for 3 7/8 and 30 ips. Being professional it's balanced only, but conversion is easy.
    And it's for sale for a most reasonable price, should you want it..
     
    leonard smalls, Nov 8, 2005
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  13. Anex

    themadhippy seen it done it smokin it

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    no
    yes
    sort of,you can either edit in a bit of coloured leader tape (use clear on a revox and it will autostop after each track) or write on the gap between tracks with a chinograph pencil
    no,my revox is phono,5 pin din or 1/ jack(user add on)
    revox even offers remote control,50 ft of cable that adds locking pause.
    one word of warning,if yove already got tapes make sure your machine will play there speed,not many revox's play at 3-3 time
    quality wise,no problems there,i still use mine for occasinal playback,its just digatal is much easier

    Lenord stop tempting me
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
    themadhippy, Nov 8, 2005
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  14. Anex

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    My TEAC had auto-stop based on the position of the tape tensioners.

    My Tandberg had an optical sensor.
     
    technobear, Nov 9, 2005
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  15. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    Oi hands off I've expressed interest privately ;)

    So what happens if it just runs to the end of the reel? Thats what I'm worried about- if I fall asleep and don't shut it off, will it just sit there straining the motors and possibly tape or will it stop itself? No tape so don't have to worry about that.
    Another possibly silly question, other than the tape formula, does it matter what tape I use? Assuming I'm not interested in anything that may or may not be on any tape I buy from ebay, can I just stick any reel on and record over what is there or are they speed/make/track specific?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005
    Anex, Nov 9, 2005
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  16. Anex

    Paul Ranson

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    The tape runs off the spool and ends up on the take up spool. This is fine if you want to turn it over on a 4 track, otherwise you have to rethread and rewind. A crude reel-reel player shuts down when the left spool stops turning. The reference to the TEAC and the tape tensioners implies the same thing.

    I think the PR99 is a B77 in a professional box. A very fine machine as long as the heads are in good order. But what you really want is an A80. http://www.liebrand.nl/la/a80.html

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Nov 9, 2005
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  17. Anex

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Currently (for data storage), Media produced by fuji or maxell, it does depend on DAT generation tho. Not exactly reel-reel, but shows which manufacturer has consistant results with media production at the moment.
     
    penance, Nov 9, 2005
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  18. Anex

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul04/articles/qa0704-3.htm

    There are two reel sizes: 7 inch and 10.5 inch.

    The bigger decks can use the smaller reels but not the other way round ;)

    Tape thickness varies just as it does in cassettes.

    C60 roughly equates to 1200 feet on a 7 inch reel.

    C90 roughly equates to 1800 feet on a 7 inch reel. This is probably the most popular for home users. It's what I used to use.

    You can work out the playing time quite easily but to get you started, an 1800 ft reel will play one way for 48 minutes at 7.5 ips.

    If you have a quarter track machine, you can turn it over and play it 48 minutes the other way just like a cassette.

    http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/tape.htm

    I think 10.5 inch reels hold twice as much as 7 inch if memory serves.

    7 inch reels always have standard spindles. 10.5 inch reels can have standard spindles or NAB spindles which are the big round ones. The reel has a big hole in the middle. You can get NAB adaptors for decks with standard spindles. The Sony above has standard spindles. The Technics is using NAB reels and adaptors.

    Some machines have pressure pads to push the tape onto the heads. Some don't. Both are fine but if the deck doesn't have pressure pads, use back-coated tape for best results.

    Some Tandberg machines feature cross-field recording (I think that's what it's called). There is a recording head both sides of the tape so that the tape is magnetised right through. Works brilliantly provided it is aligned correctly so check service history.
     
    technobear, Nov 9, 2005
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  19. Anex

    technobear Ursine Audiophile

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    Sorry, forgot manufacturers <roll eyes>

    I used Maxell.

    TDK, Fuji, Memorex, Ampex, Sony, BASF.

    Avoid white box tapes. They shed oxide like there was no tomorrow.

    Note that not all decks have adjustable bias. If yours doesn't, I would stick to Ferric tapes. This isn't the issue it is with cassette. Note that most open reel machines have no trouble giving a better noise performance than cassette without the use of Dolby NR, even at 3.75 ips. This is why most machines don't bother with Dolby.

    Having said that, if you must have Dolby, the circuit in the Revox B77 is a work of art. It's a 50-transistor discrete circuit if I recall correctly and is rather good but it was an expensive optional extra.
     
    technobear, Nov 9, 2005
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  20. Anex

    Anex Thermionic

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    Ok thanks for the info all :) . If my experiences with Dobly are anything to go by it won't be going anywhere near anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005
    Anex, Nov 9, 2005
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