[Review] Living with legends; Rogers LS3/5a and Quad ESL57

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by tones, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. tones

    tones compulsive cantater

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    Living with legends; Rogers LS3/5a and Quad ESL57

    I originally put this on PFM's classic hi-fi section, but just in case anyone here is interested, here it is:

    I have the good fortune to have both of these classic speakers, which I use with No.2 system. The Rogers I've had since new, bought in 1981. In all of that time, they have performed wonderfully well in combination with a variety of subwoofers (latest is a Linn Sizmik). At one point, thinking they must surely be out of date, I thought to replace them with a pair of small, rear-ported B&Ws, sitting unwanted and unloved on a dealer's shelf in Rheinfelden in Germany, but after a listen, guess what ended up in the attic… I remain amazed that such wee boxes can produce such sound. I'm sure that there are better wee boxes out there, but not being much of an audiophile, I've no particular interest in going out and finding these better boxes.

    The ESLs are something I've hankered after, ever since I was warned against them by a Quadophile in the 1970s – they ruthlessly show up every imperfection in your records, he said. And there's the appearance, like big, old-fashioned firescreens, only uglier. I've never forgotten that, and perversely it made me want a pair, just to hear what the fuss was about. So I finally scored a pair on eBay Deutschland, and I sent them off to ESL specialist Quad Musikwiedergabe GmbH in Koblenz for a minor refurbishing. Herr Manfred Stein does a great job, and the ESLs came back looking and sounding great.

    “Stereovile†has said that the LS3/5a gives most of the ESL performance at a considerably reduced price. I was keen to try this out, and I have to say that the little Rogers are by no means shamed by their distinguished company. The contrast in appearance couldn't be greater, the tiny Rogers (30.5cm x 19cm.) and the enormous Quad panels (87cm.x 82.5cm.). Because of the nature of the room in which No.2 hi-fi system lives (relatively small and quite square), and the fact that it is used for other things (sewing room, computer room), the Quads have to be parked by the wall and brought out into listening position (easy enough to do as they're quite flat). And this is where the problems start – they are very fussy about placement. If not placed correctly, you get two loudspeakers playing – there is no melding into one to give a stereo image. I had this two-speaker effect sitting in my listening chair – and then I leaned forward and bingo! there was my missing stereo. Quad expert Lilolee once recommended that the optimal position be marked on the floor for future reference. I can now see the wisdom of this recommendation, but unfortunately it's not practical on carpet (and The Boss wouldn't see it as practical on any surface).

    I'd heard about the problems with Quads and amplification, how it was easy to wreck them (and/or the amps) because of the strange load they present to the amp. However, these have the “clamp†overload protection and they seemed happy with both No.2 amplifier setups (Quad 44/303, EAR834/Quad 606). In any case, I don't play things very loud. Well, I thought I didn't until I found myself with a slight headache. The things are so clear that I was playing them much louder than usual, without realising that's what I was doing. They suck you in and you crank up a bit more volume to hear more.

    So what do they sound like? In a word, marvellous. If I had to characterise the sound in a word, the word I'd use would be “effortlessâ€Â. You get this open, clean, clear sound, which, as previously mentioned, sucks you in and invites you to play it louder. The ESL effect seems to be more marked with small groups and soloists. In orchestral and choral works, the sound from the Quads is superior to that of the Rogers, but, to my ears, not that much superior. In my beloved Monteverdi's Vespers, the impression of space in San Marco was captured nicely, but the Rogers were by no means shamed. However, with well-recorded small groups and soloists, and with correct positioning, the Quads become startlingly alive in a way that the Rogers never did (of course, perhaps I just didn't position them well enough). In “In the wee small hoursâ€Â, Ol' Blue Eyes was not only there, but there.

    At the moment, I'm running the Quads through the Sizmik (I simply swapped over the speaker cables from one speaker to the other), so I've no idea what their actual bass performance is like (their Achilles's heel, I've heard), but I may experiment without the Sizmik to hear what happens*. Now here's a curious thing – the Rogers + Sizmik appear to have more bass than do the Quads + Sizmik. Or is it that Q+S have more midrange, which gives the impression of less bass? I haven't worked that one out yet. Certainly there is more midrange. Listening to the two combinations, it's as if, in the case of the Rogers, the treble knob in an old-fashioned amp had been turned well down. As a result, with the Quads, low-level things I'd never heard before kept manifesting themselves, such as little bits of previously-undetected percussion in the “Riverdance†soundtrack.

    Another feature of the ESLs is their revelation of poor recordings. For example, an old favourite, Kenny Rogers's “Ruby, don't take your love to townâ€Â, which always sounded OK on the LS3/5as, was exposed for the muffled mess that it is. Pity, I'll never be able to listen to it in quite the same way ever again.

    In the end, when we compare the ESLs with the LS3/5as, it is not a matter of good and bad, but good and better. The two have their own character, and I intend to keep both and keep them operating, using the Rogers for quick listens but setting up the Quads for longer listening sessions.

    So, as I said somewhere before, I've reached the end of my hi-fi road. I know there are better set-ups than mine. I've been privileged to hear Titian's system, which remains my ne plus ultra, but that level is as attainable for me as is a holiday on Pluto. But with both No.1 and No.2 systems making (subjectively) such a joyous noise, who needs more? (Apart from a complete set of Gardiner cantatas of course).

    * I subsequently did this, and I found the bass, while not measurable on the Richter scale, to sound so natural and unforced that I throttled back the Sizmik to match. The ESLs are currently being run directly from a Nait 2 without sub and they sound great.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2005
    tones, Aug 16, 2005
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  2. tones

    ukpco

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    I must say I agree with you about the Rogers. My wife loves their size and I love their sound. I've not found anything I prefer that my wife would accept.
     
    ukpco, Jan 20, 2006
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  3. tones

    felix part-time Horta

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    Great writeup!

    I have a pair of serviced ESL57s bought for very much the same sorts of reasons when I had some free cash from flogging other kit. They get wheeled out as an alternative to Impulse H2s, driven with either Deltec amps or a Nait2.

    The deltecs are ...fantastic, but in some ways the Nait is a better match. It's audibly rolled-off, but in a way that is totally complementary to the Quads; it drives them very, very well. The comments about the effortless sound, esp. at low levels is spot-on. I recently spent a couple of months with a loaned Audio Innovations 500 (modified with a Border Patrol PSU). If I had space for two fulltime systems, or if I'd come across the Quad / AI500 pairing a few years ago, I'd stop right there. Sheer magic.

    ESL57s vs big horns is an interesting contrast too. Surprisingly they are actually cut from the same cloth on a couple of things I value - intimacy, for one, and the effortless portrayal of the dynamics of musicianship for another. Despite the apparant contradiction, in direct comprison the ESls never lack for subjective dynamics; probably because they do 'low level' so completely beyond any other speaker I've heard. While I use the H2s most of the time... I couldn't bear to sell the 57s!
     
    felix, Jan 20, 2006
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  4. tones

    davide

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    my view

    I have a pair of ex radio station Spendor LS3/5As and an early pair of Quad ELS 57's. I drive them with a Rogers e40a valve amp. The Spendors are very good, the Quads are fabulous
     
    davide, May 20, 2009
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  5. tones

    RobHolt Moderator

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    The ESL is one of the best speakers I've ever heard - 'the' best in some ways.

    The LS3/5a is one of the worst IMO.

    I seem to be the odd one out on this so perhaps I need another listen to the latter, I had a pair of Spendor 11 ohm versions here for about six months.
     
    RobHolt, May 21, 2009
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  6. tones

    The Devil IHTFP

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    I broadly agree, although active ATCs beat the Quads into a very close second place. IMO. The LS3/5a is horribly overrrated.
     
    The Devil, May 21, 2009
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  7. tones

    spica

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    Knock 80% off what they are regularly seen to fetch... and i would disagree. :)
     
    spica, May 21, 2009
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  8. tones

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Hi James,

    I bought a very nice pair of ESLs recently that have been rebuilt by One Thing Audio. I've also still got Jonathan's ESLs here, so stacked pairs might prove interesting though the amplifier will probably go into melt-down.

    I've never had a proper listen to active ATCs and that is something I must do in the near future.
     
    RobHolt, May 21, 2009
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  9. tones

    felix part-time Horta

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    You lucky, lucky thing ;) [size=-2]Though I note this thread is 3yrs old, and i did eventually sell my ESLs... to Jonathan![/size]

    To make the amp 'play nice you could always add 1ohm in series with each speaker feed - it'll matter not a jot to the Quads given their v. high input impedance in the bass.

    Do, I rather like them too.
     
    felix, May 21, 2009
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  10. tones

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Stacked Quads was what Alastair Robertson-Aikman used, with Krell amps, I believe.

    Hop on a plane to Glasgow if you are feeling energetic.
     
    The Devil, May 21, 2009
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  11. tones

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Might well take you up on that James, thanks for the offer.
     
    RobHolt, May 22, 2009
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  12. tones

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Hi Martin,

    I've had them about 3 weeks now.
    Bloody performance getting them home - 420 miles round trip to a tiny little village in Somerset to buy them from an ex SME engineer. These were given the complete rebuild 12 months ago.
    I'm not entirely convinced by the OTEC treble panels in terms of balance so might go back to standard panels there, jury is out.
    They seem to reach lower in the bass (and pack some punch) than the standard ESLs by quite some margin. Here are a few pics:

    [​IMG]

    Lovely clean restoration job:

    [​IMG]

    All driven that awful, nasty, past-it Quad amplifier :)

    [​IMG]
     
    RobHolt, May 22, 2009
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  13. tones

    felix part-time Horta

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    Lovely!

    You should have ratteld our cages in That Zummerzet - we could a help 'ee I'm sure :)
     
    felix, May 22, 2009
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  14. tones

    The Devil IHTFP

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    JR says you are a decent fellow, and that's good enough for me.
     
    The Devil, May 23, 2009
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  15. tones

    Paul Ranson

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    I think ARA moved on to structurally modified ESL63s.

    Which are a better loudspeaker, but possibly not in Rob's room.

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, May 25, 2009
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