[Review] Mana Sound Frame

Mana Sound Frame

This is a combination of Groovehandle and Mana Forum reports and constitutes my last word on the subject.

First of all, I have to say that, for all the flak Bub takes, he has been very helpful and encouraging to me, and even very generously offered to buy it from me if I wanted rid of it (an offer that has been taken up). I have no doubt whatsoever that Mana produces the goods for him; I wish I could report the same. I also have to say that the Mana website is not the den of misguided fanatics that it is so often portrayed. Although I sense a feeling of restrained incredulity that I could not persuade mine to work, they were always helpful and never rude - the nearest is one suggestion that my hearing might be bu****ed, and of course that might be right. I have also met some enthusiastic classical lovers who don't come Groovehandling, so I intend to stay there for the music side.

Given the high emotions this topic so readily engenders, I approach it with the disclaimer that this is a report of one person's experience and is not meant to be a blanket statement of the efficacy or otherwise of Mana supports. It clearly works wonderfully well for some people, for example, look at the extraordinary photos at

http://manaforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=462298155&f=172298155&m=2624078352

Here, clearly, is someone who is to the Mana born. (This is Hermann, who, by the way, is a very nice guy). Indeed, it was the missionary zeal of its protagonists and claims of performance improvements, which seemed to me to border on the miraculous that persuaded me that there was no smoke without fire. I had to try some, even though it represented an irreversible financial commitment (the generous Mana return policy applies only to the UK). So I ordered the smallest unit, a Sound Frame. With postage to Switzerland, customs, etc., it came out to around £200 (this cost included Mana's rather nice spirit level, which they are definitely NOT getting back). Needless to say, I was most anxious for it to work!

A Mana Sound Frame consists of a glass plate with two black strips positioned in the centre. This rests on four adjustable spikes that are held in a black angle-iron frame. Four more adjustable spikes protrude downwards. It is nicely finished and actually looks better than what it sounds from the bare description. It must be said that it is an absolute pain to set up! It takes a while to adjust all those spikes so that the glass is sitting level and is evenly supported on its spikes.

Nobody has ever explained satisfactorily how Mana supports work, but it is widely believed not only to isolate components from ground-based vibrations but also to minimise vibrations originating within the equipment itself. This applies not only to equipment with moving parts (turntables, CD players), but also to those with none. As I understand it, the explanation here is the reduction of "microphony", the tendency of electronic components to pick up vibrations from on-board power sources (which may have a 50Hz mains "hum" and accompanying vibrations) and from airborne vibrations, and to pass these through the hi-fi chain, resulting in diminished audible performance.

So, having set up the Sound Frame on a solid support (a desk top), I placed on it my Marantz CD63II KI Sig. CD player. I played a portion of a track, and then I placed the Marantz on the desk top and played it again. And the difference was - none whatsoever. I tried it again. Still nothing. Slightly desperately (£200 remember!), I readjusted the Sound Frame completely and tried again. Still no perceptible difference. Once more with feeling. Nothing. Any thought of using the Sound Frame with the Marantz (the original intention) vanished away. Now the Marantz has big Sorbothane-like feet, which may be doing the Mana's job for it. In which case, who needs Mana?

But there was the LP12. Surely THAT would make a difference! All the LP12 Mana owners say so. But, no it didn't. The LP12 sounded just the same "after" that it did "before". Now the Mana enthusiasts have advised me to let it "settle", then take it away and see what difference I notice. I haven't done this yet. I'm disinclined to do this, as it's a lot of hassle. Besides, it hasn't made things sound any worse, it looks better than my own home-made levelling device and it holds its level nicely. But it certainly hasn't improved the sound at all, which was the reason for buying it.

So, what went wrong? Several explanations suggest themselves;

(a) Mana doesn't work;

(b) I'm deaf or lack perception;

(c) The set-up wasn't effected properly;

(d) The nature of the surface on which the Mana support rests is critical;

(e) some hi-fi equipment is immune to the Mana effect.

Given the enormous popular support, I think we can discount (a). I'll happily concede (b) as a possibility. At 55, my hearing won't be what it once was. But does that mean than Mana should be sold with an age warning? It's possible that I didn't do (c) properly, but if it's THAT finicky (having now been through the setting up 4 times), I don't want to know. As for (d), the Marantz was on a desktop, the LP12 on a shelf in a cabinet. Does it need to be on a floor, or something REALLY solid (stone plinth, etc.)? Perhaps Mana Acoustics could or should advise on this aspect.

With regard to (e), it should be noted that the most enthusiastic users of Mana use Naim equipment - John Watson, founder of Mana Acoustics is a Naim user and Mana's own literature has illustrations with drawings of what are clearly Naim components. But most people swear by its effect on an LP12. I noticed no difference with mine. So, is my LP12 badly set up, or am I as deaf an old git as I sometimes suspect? No matter what the cause, I'm stuck with my deficiencies and I really can't be bothered endlessly fiddling with the equipment. As far as I'm concerned, it, not me, is supposed to play!

One certain thing comes out of it all. Mana is not a universal cure. It does not work for all combinations of equipment, ears and support surface. Therefore, in order to avoid disappointment, try before you buy. Mana Acoustics operates a 30-day return policy in the UK; you sacrifice only the postage.

Update:

The great Mana experiment:

The records and the LP12 moved downstairs. I set up the Mana Sound Frame on Linn Skeets (synthetic mineral discs designed to stop your spikes gouging holes in your parquet flooring).

Prior to experiments: play test record (Handel: Water Music (EC/Pinnock) - why? I know it backwards, every note, every nuance).

Experiment 1: Remove Skeets, replace with plywood pieces under spikes, level carefully, play test record.

Result: no noticeable difference.

Experiment 2: Remove Mana completely, set LP12 on cabinet with bits of paper under the feet to level, play test record.

Result: No noticeable difference.

Experiment 3: Place Mana on floor (vinyl-covered concrete), level carefully, play test record.

Result: No noticeable difference.

Experiment 4: Relocate LP12 on top of cabinet with bits of paper for levelling. Play test record.

Result: No noticeable difference.

Now why this should be so I have no idea. Clearly Mana does not work in the Tones/LP12/Creek/Quad/LS3/5A system. It might well be that one of the components does not function properly. Quite possibly it might be the first-named component that is the problem. Alas, there's not a lot that I can do to repair that one, and it'll probably get even worse with advancing years.

The final result is that Mana is clearly not for me. I do not deny its efficacy elsewhere - too many of you have heard it for yourselves - and I shall never bad-mouth it, just because it doesn't work for me. John Watson's work has clearly given many people much pleasure and I wish him and Mana Acoustics well in helping people enjoy the pleasures of music.

 

bravo - good post.

Anybody else tried the (excellent) offer of money back guarantee .... and maybe even returned the equipment?

If so, why?

I may just give it a go myself.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Tones.

If its any use to you I have had a variety of racks, and I have never heard any differences at all.

I have had my LP12 on a small light weight archi-dee stand (as advised) I have had it on hevay Ash Racking and I have had it on the side table, in all cases it sounded preciesly the same.

the CDP has had various things under it and its been on top of various things. No difference.

In all cases I paid very little for the racks and wonder if the perception in sound difference is directly related to how much one paid for said rack?

 

Ultimately, Gary, people heard what they heard; whether they talked themselves into it (as I've sometimes caught myself doing, because I WANT to hear a difference) or whether they're just more perceptive with more educated ears than I, I don't know. And you have to remember my vintage (56 next week), so perhaps the hearing isn't as good as I think it is. I tried Mana, it didn't work for me. End of story.

 

Why am I not surprised :MILD:

 

No Mana effect?

Dear Tones,

I am truly flabbergasted to hear that there you could hear no difference in your LP12 either on Mana or off Mana, on a desk top or on the floor or on skeets etc. especially the latter-when I removed my skeets and let the spikes loose on my parquet flooring I was very, very surprised by the sudden cleaning up of the sound. I am doubly intrigued after having read your contributions re: classical music on the Mana Forum. In my opinion a man with duff hearing could never be so enthusiastic about Bach and classical music in general.

However I do notice that you stress how you painstakingly addressed the "levelness" of the support and deck etc. but you do not mention the "pain in the a** effect which derives from having to tune the glass shelf by careful adjustment of the 4th spike as outlined in the Mana instructions. In my experience the importance of exactly levelling the deck is merely the icing on the cake, the initial 90% of the Mana effect is brought about when you effectively tune the ringing tone of the glass shelf by adjusting the last spike, even if the shelf is not dead-centre level.

Cheers

 

Dear Chris,

I'm sorry to have gasted your flabber so completely, but I reported accurately and truthfully on what I heard - or more precisely, what I didn't hear. I have no axe to grind, one way or the other. I would have liked very much to hear the spectacular differences described by Blzebub and others, but, for whatever reason, I didn't. I've just turned 56; perhaps I really don't hear as well as I'd like to think. But they're my ears, so not a lot of point in keeping something that everyone else but myself can hear!

And, yes, I did tune the glass until it rang (Bub stressed the importance of this). Now, there may be ringing and ringing, and perhaps I didn't get the right one. But I'm a keen DIYer and I think I have reasonable facility with gadgets and tools, so if it's THAT difficult to make it ring properly, whatever that may be, I'm not interested. As you'll have gathered, I'm a music enthusiast first and foremost, and the equipment exists as a means to an end. Moreover, I can get pleasure listening to music out of a small radio. I have long accepted that I'm not going to achieve the replication of a concert hall in my lounge, given my lounge and my means, so for me near enough is good enough. I'd hoped that Mana would bring it nearer. To my ears, it didn't. That's life.

Regards

 

So, you didn't like Mana.
What did you settle on? Or more pointedly did you alter/swap your exisiting supports after all this stress & trouble?

regards

 

In the end, I went back to no support at all, Andy, other than the feet that came with the equipment. I'm now convinced that, to my ears (very important qualification that), supports make no difference whatsoever. I believe that people do hear miracles with Mana and other stands. I heard nothing, so I can save my money. The Mana went to Bub in Glasgow, a major Mana enthusiast, and he's very happy with it, so we're both happy.

 

Interesting and very fair post. Being of the flat persuasion I've always been aware of Mana and am convinced by the effecasy of it. Not because I have heard much of it but because I do hear small differences between stands and bits of cable (unlike deaf Garyi ). But I wonder if it's a flat / round thing again. Perhaps because it's so unimportant in the way you listern to music it just doesn't register. I certainly get that affect with some kit.

At least you tried

 

Deaf me too, Tom! I really did want to hear the Mana effect, but it refused to manifest itself to me, which was unkind of it, but also kind, because, as Phase 1 doesn't work for me, I no longer have to worry about Phase 7 and the like.

 

Hi Tones,

It might be worth pointing out that you are unable to hear any difference between your turntable and your CD player, apart from surface noise.

In any event, the soundframe is now nestling in a stack of others.

Cheers.

 

Hello Bub,

If you want your usual username back, let the admin or one of the mods know.

Cheers

 

Hi Robbo,

That didn't take long!

Are you up in Scotland soon?

Cheers aye.

 

And there was me thinking that James Mc Peake wasn't going to bother with us
So we get this out the way first, mana is oustanding good graden furniture, I'm wearing a stab proof vest (in case you want to come and issue a death threat), and Billy NO mates bass.
Right that all said and done, welcome back Bub, you've been missed, all the guys have asked where you were WM
BTW Timpy was sticking up for you here, but then wants a Rover 820, so I feel thats cancelled that out.

 

Hello Tony, thanks for the welcome. It is nice of people to ask for me.

How are the Omigawd cables doin'? It helps if the cables don't rattle around.

If you want to sell your Mana, I'm your man. What is it that you have?

Rover 820 with va-va-voom?

 

Hi, Bub, I cheerfully acknowledge this and have often done so.

Have you read the thread where GrahamN, Lilolee, Ian (Sideshowbob) and myself visited Titian and heard his stupendous system? (It's called something like "Three lunatics in an asylum"). There Graham heard things (such as depth of soundstage) that I simply couldn't hear, and this led me to conjecture that there are people who simply can't suspend disbelief, as it were, and insist on hearing only sound from two point sources (four in Titian's case - two subs) rather than imagining instruments in space. Perhaps there are some of us who simply can't process the information and convert it to a sound picture and perhaps I'm one of them. And perhaps this could relate to my inability to hear differences made by Mana (although I seem to recall that you're also not a great believer in soundstages) or back-to-back LP/CD comparisons.

In any case, the Mana wasn't doing me any good, but I'm glad I tried it (I don't have to worrry any more about what I'm missing) and I'm glad it found a good home chez toi.

Best regards

 

Good to see you back James, we are doing well thanks and Tim is well just tell him he doesn't Want a Hanging Banger please (Rover 820) :newbie: :cry: :chair: :beat: :saw: :laser:

 

Hi Tones,

I agree about the 'soundstage' - I'm not too interested in where the music is coming from - it seems irrelevant to me.

What Mana has done (to my system, in my opinion etc etc) is increased separation, dynamics and clarity presumably by dropping the noise floor, which has all but gone away.

Hi Tony,

No-one in their right mind should drive a Rover 820. It's sick and wrong. Tell Tim.

 

so your happy with all the sound from one place inbetween speakers?