[Review] zerogain scoop! first review of new pre-amp

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by bottleneck, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    zerogain scoop! first review of new pre-amp

    Glasshouse kits are based in the next village to me. http://www.hificollective.co.uk/

    The owner of Glasshouse spent many years running WAD when it was also based over this way. Chances are, if you ever called WAD at the time, or got them to make an amp for you, Nick would have been the person to do it. Nicks products are original, well made and really dont skimp on quality. This is certainly helped by the components he distributes and has on tap for designing. (audionote, blackgate, alps etc).

    Because I know him pretty well, he's lent me a new prototype pre-amp. It will be available as a kit (price to be determined, somewhere near £1k), probably later this year.

    One hifi mag has already had it for review, but that review isnt published yet. This (installment) review is a genuine scoop for ZG - details arent available of the product yet as far as Im aware.

    This review will be in several posts over a few weeks as I get to grips with it. I want to include other peoples opinions, technical information on whats inside and of course plenty of pics.

    Thats all for this first post, a lot more to follow.

    Cheers
    Chris
     
    bottleneck, Aug 9, 2005
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  2. bottleneck

    SCIDB Moderator

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    Hi Chris,

    sounds interesting. A kit for £1000. It must be packed full of high tech stuff. Does it have a phono stage? Does it have a transformer output stage? Does it have a choke input supply? Does it have stepped attenuator or transformer volume control? This pre can have many things.

    There are a number of pre amp kits at very good prices so this needs to be at the head of the game. I look forward to your write up as you have a Basie pre to compare against.

    Here are a few items it will be up against.

    http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_basie.htm

    http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_basieii.htm

    http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_django.htm

    http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_tram_wot_linestage.htm

    http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/foreplay/foreplay_line_stage_kit.htm

    http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/pre-amp.htm

    http://www.transcendentsound.com/preamp kit.htm

    Keep us posted!

    SCIDB
     
    SCIDB, Aug 9, 2005
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  3. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi

    Cheers Dean. Yes, its very flash in construction.

    It has a phono stage in it, balanced connections aswell as RCA, and has Audionote C core transformers in it amongst other things. It is very large and extremely heavy.

    I'm comparing it directly against my Basie like you mentioned, but also against my EAR 834P, which is quite a test for an inbuilt phono.

    I need to spend a few more days listening to it, and get some digital photos up.

    Chris
     
    bottleneck, Aug 9, 2005
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  4. bottleneck

    SCIDB Moderator

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    Hi Chris,

    Do you know who has designed it? Is it Andy Groves who has done designs for WAD and Audionote?

    SCIDB
     
    SCIDB, Aug 9, 2005
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  5. bottleneck

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Sounds interesting Chris.
    I agree with Dean though, at that price it will need to be very special.
    I have done minor mods to my Grounded Grid pre, it still comes in under £550 including purchase, shipping and mods.
     
    penance, Aug 9, 2005
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  6. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi Dean.

    The design and build was by Nick, although it spent a few weeks with Andy Grove who spent time removing any traces of hum, and making it perform optimally.
     
    bottleneck, Aug 9, 2005
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  7. bottleneck

    vibbles

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    I'm very envious you have it to try,
    It's been on my wish list since Nick first mentioned it when I built my Glasshouse 300b last year,
    if it has the same quality as the 300b it really should be something,
    I look foward to seeing some photo's and hearing your impessions,

    David
     
    vibbles, Aug 9, 2005
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  8. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    A few updates.

    Andy Grove actually did the circuit design. Nick did the product design and built the prototype. Andy Grove tested the resulting prototype to make sure it was hum free and measured well.

    Vibbles - if you are anywhere near Milton Keynes you'd be welcome to come over and hear it. If you could bring your Glasshouse amp, you could hear the two things together.

    I'm resisting commenting on the sound or writing too much until the caps bed in, it needs a few days at least, maybe even a week or so.

    Finally, I've heard that the price hasn't been finalised yet, and will be based on a full costing. It may well be cheaper than I thought, at around the £850-£900 mark, but we'll have to wait and see.

    It is worth bearing in mind that the phono stage in it is the equivelant of a £400-£600 outboard phono stage, although with its own character. I'll resist commenting on the sound of that aswell, until the thing burns in.
     
    bottleneck, Aug 9, 2005
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  9. bottleneck

    MO! MOnkey`ead!

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    not even a couple of pic's in the meantime?
     
    MO!, Aug 10, 2005
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  10. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    some pictures as requested.

    They are only 100kb because of the ZG file size limit restriction.

    Sonic comments to come in about a week.
     

    Attached Files:

    bottleneck, Aug 12, 2005
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  11. bottleneck

    Dev Moderator

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    But, but, but, but, it's just a box:( where's the tubes man? We want to see real porn.

    Have you made up your mind about the sound?
     
    Dev, Aug 12, 2005
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  12. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Not yet!

    I'm going to burn the caps in for another week, and then when its burned in and I'm really used to the sound I'll swap back to my regular setup. That should highlight the differences for me nicely..
     
    bottleneck, Aug 12, 2005
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  13. bottleneck

    vibbles

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    WOW, not at all what I was expecting, really very nice though, very Copland / Audio Research, smooth, sophisticated looking,
    I perhaps thought it was going to follow the amp more, copper plate, exposed valves ect.
    not easy of course because you need to get a pre and a phono in, be interesting to look inside.
    thanks for the offer of trying it, bit difficult at the moment,
    I look forward to your thoughts on how it sounds,

    David
     
    vibbles, Aug 12, 2005
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  14. bottleneck

    MO! MOnkey`ead!

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    I thought Copland too.

    BTW, your painting looks wonky.
     
    MO!, Aug 13, 2005
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  15. bottleneck

    SCIDB Moderator

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    Hi chris,

    Is there any chance of some photos of the insides. This way way we can see where the money has gone. We maybe able to have a stab at the various design features to see it's worth the money or not.

    Also how is the sound quality going?

    SCIDB
     
    SCIDB, Aug 16, 2005
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  16. bottleneck

    wadia-miester Mighty Rearranger

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    I reckon the monies gone on the box
     
    wadia-miester, Aug 16, 2005
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  17. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    no doubt the box is expensive. It does have some quality parts in it too - like Audionote C core Transformers - I think they are about £70 each ( 2 of them).

    Decided against internal shots as it is a prototype - not fair really prototypes are designed to 'work' rather than look good, The production models will be designed to be better laid out.

    I need quite a bit of time to swap pre's back and forth to get a real handle on the sound, and I just havent had time of late. I want to get round to it though.

    More to come .. one day! :)
     
    bottleneck, Aug 16, 2005
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  18. bottleneck

    vibbles

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    Knowing Nick
    it will have everything it should have for a quality piece of kit with no corners cut.

    David
     
    vibbles, Aug 16, 2005
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  19. bottleneck

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Have had a good chance to listen to the pre-amp now, so will write my findings.

    I've never been one for elongated waffly meaningless hifi prose, so I'll keep it brief!.

    CONSTRUCTION
    I'll write more about the componentry/design when I get it from the horses mouth. I can tell you its a well made and good looking box, and that particularly impressive is the choice of both balanced and un balanced inputs. It contains an all valve phono stage (which has adjustable gain by changing a resistor) and of course the valve line stage.
    Of course the contents are hard wired, and built the way that you build it yourself.

    SOUND
    (The all important bit!)
    Firstly - the phono stage.
    I think particularly important on a pre-amp of this price is the phono stage. After all, you can buy a pre-amp kit for less (without balanced options and not quite as good looking) which does not have a phono. There has been talk about releasing the pre in a modular fashion - i.e. you can add the phono option later, and buy the basic pre for less.
    Sound wise I was comparing it to my 834P. TBH its very similar in presentation. It sounds great in fact. It has a tighter more detailed presentation, with a slightly more compressed soundstage. In short it sacrifices a little of the air and space thing in favour of a tighter more rhythmic sort of sound. I think it would be an easy phono stage for anybody to like (and the adjustability of gain is a real plus). A real star this phono stage, leagues above most inclusive phono stages, and as good as many out-board ones.
    The actual Pre-amp echoes the sound of the phono stage. Again, it majors on clarity and detail and has a tight sound, but again a little of the spaciuousness around the notes isnt there compared to my normal pre.
    One final point about the sound.. It is amazingly quiet. I have 99db horns, and I can honestly say that this is MUCH quieter than my normal valve pre (which isnt exactly loud). It is vanishingly quiet, and suffers from only the slightest faint hiss at impossibly loud volume levels.
    MODIFCATIONS
    What is particularly exciting about a DIY pre such as this, is that of course you can specify alternative componentry to tailor the sound to your preference. My own pre is stuffed full of paper/oil caps, and I wonder how the sound of this pre would change with various modifications. This is the joy of kit building of course, and with a box of this size you are going to have plenty of room to make any changes and modifications that your heart might desire. People will be able to fine tune the sound to whatever type of prefernce they like.
    CONCLUSION
    I'd reccomend this pre-amp to anybody looking for a DIY pre with an inclusive phono stage. Im sure having the valves hidden away will appeal to those who aesthetically do not like valves, or have children/animals running around the place. The sound is detailed and focused. I can imagine it being a very easy valve pre to get into if you're coming to valve from a history of solid state.
    Very good then, flexible and with a great phono stage.To be reccomended.
     
    bottleneck, Aug 18, 2005
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  20. bottleneck

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Sounds promising, tho i still think that around 1k it would be overpriced.
     
    penance, Aug 18, 2005
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