RIP classical record shops

Discussion in 'Classical Music' started by eisenach, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. eisenach

    eisenach

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    ... I asked in another thread. I suspect sales really are down, and that the internet really is changing the way people acquire their music. For most of us, I suspect it's more of a case of ordering CDs over the internet rather than downloading "tracks" direct (though I may be wrong!)
    Anyway, it seems that the days of the specialist classical recordshop may well be numbered. I'd be sad to see them go, but I must confess, I don't do much to support my own local shop.
    Before Christmas, I was in Gloucester, and Audiosonic, the local classical shop has moved away from a very good site next to the cathedral close to a much smaller, pokey shop on a much less attractive site - surely a sign that business can't be too brilliant.
    Yesterday I was in Worcester with some Christmas money to spend, and was horrified to find that Oakstone Classics has closed altogether. The HiFi shop (full of TV screens and cinema stuff) told me there is no other classical outlet in the city, and I failed to find any classical in HMV, though that may just have been because it was full of sale stuff.
    Hereford does still have The Outback classical record shop near the cathedral, but although Hereford is my local town, I rarely buy much there because of their prices.
    When I look back over the year, I've bought mostly from: (new)
    MDT
    and the odd disc from Britannia

    and secondhand (the bulk of what I buy) from:
    Yarborough House in Bishop's Castle
    and Hancock and Monks in Hay-on-Wye.

    Clearly, if I want the local record shop to survive, I'm going to have to rethink my buying habits.

    How are classical shops holding up where you live?
     
    eisenach, Dec 30, 2004
    #1
  2. eisenach

    pe-zulu

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    In Denmark only one single local classical recordshop has survived - in Copenhagen. They have some interesting and special things on stock, and it pays to pay them a visit. They are very kind, willing to provide you with almost everything they havent got. But alas, they havent got the corresponding ability to do it. Everything is in a mess, they write your orders down on small pieces of paper, and these pieces disappear all the time, and I have waited years to receive nothing in the end. So I think this shop is mostly for incurable nostalgists.

    Others, who want certain CDs here and now, havent got any choice:You get the CDs faster and cheaper via the internet, e.g. from JPC, Z, or Amazon.
     
    pe-zulu, Dec 30, 2004
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  3. eisenach

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    I was in London today, went to visit Natural History museum and Portrait Gallery while G'parents looked after our offspring..... anyway en-route to Portrait gallery I was looking for the Classical CD shop that used to be between Leicester Sq and Covent Garden, but couldn't find it...... can't remember what it was called but has it disappeared?
    Also noticed Tower Records has gone too, it had a good classical section.
     
    alanbeeb, Dec 30, 2004
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  4. eisenach

    tones compulsive cantater

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    Musik Hug has shops in Zürich and Basel with reasonably-sized classical departments - not enormous, but not bad either. And the CD full prices are lower than those in the UK. Problem is, Amazon Deutschland, with its low prices, VAT deduction for non-EU countries and free post for even quite small orders...
     
    tones, Dec 31, 2004
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  5. eisenach

    sid

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    I seem to have had similar experiences recently. I go to Oxford each year during the Christmas break to buy some music as there are virtually no classical sections in any of the Swindon stores apart from Borders.
    However this year the basement room in HMV which used to be purely classical now houses easy listening, jazz and folk as well, reducing the classical section by about half.

    I wonder if the time will come when I have to make an annual trip to London instead to get the choice I had 5 years ago.

    Sid
     
    sid, Jan 2, 2005
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  6. eisenach

    Saab

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    Saab, Jan 3, 2005
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  7. eisenach

    eisenach

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    But that's my point. The net, with its lower prices and huge choice, is taking out the "real thing". Most of the time I buy a title I'm looking for (and so I buy from online shops like MDT), but it's also nice just to browse, and there's nothing like browsing through the real thing in a real record shop. I can't do that any more in Worcester. In Gloucester, the surroundings are far less congenial and the choice diminished. Hereford's shop is still there, but for how much longer?
     
    eisenach, Jan 3, 2005
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  8. eisenach

    Saab

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    I suppose its an easy explanation,the rents will be so high for a business thats unlikely to take more than £100 a day in revenue.the only place to go is a fair it seems
     
    Saab, Jan 3, 2005
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  9. eisenach

    Tom Alves

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    Now I live in the wilds I rely heavily on the web but when I was down south I supported my local store. The prices were higher but I was the able to listen to several recordings whilst drinking coffee before buying and to be given recommendations. Practices sadly impossible on the net
     
    Tom Alves, Jan 3, 2005
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  10. eisenach

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    For those in or near Edinburgh, I strongly recommend supporting McAlister Matheson Music on corner of Grindlay Street/Castle Terrace, just a few yards along the street from the Usher Hall and the Lyceum Theatre.
    http://www.mmmusic.co.uk/

    They have a big range of titles on display, and a substantial book and DVD stock too.
    The staff are all very knowledgeable, especially the proprietors, and they normally get orders in within a few days.
    They also have discount scheme, worthwhile if buying more than 10 or so discs per year.

    I always try to use them in preference to Amazon, even if its slightly more expensive, I'd hate this shop to disappear. However, I've never seen it empty of customers so hopefully business is healthy.
     
    alanbeeb, Jan 3, 2005
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  11. eisenach

    pe-zulu

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    Well, there is a problem for us, who don't adhere to the mainstream repertoire. No local shop can afford to have
    all possible CDs on stock, and our local shops are not interested in that group of customers (too much effort, and too little profit in providing single CDs from small french and german CDproducers). And even the abovementioned homepages contains almost only CDs from the mainstream
    releases. Only a "shop" with Amazon-dimensions is able to
    provide me with the things, I find really interesting, a pity but a fact.
     
    pe-zulu, Jan 3, 2005
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  12. eisenach

    titian

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    Yes, internet-shopping is faster, cheaper and better when you know what you need. You don't need to loose your time in going to the shop and looking through all what they have.
    99.9% of what I have, is bought in internet.
     
    titian, Jan 4, 2005
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  13. eisenach

    NickM

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    I live in London, where we don't have many classical record shops. I use Harold Moores a bit, but they exasperate me by pricing Naxos CDs at £6.99 - sell them at the right price, or not at all, please. Other independent shops seem unable to survive at London rents and rates. HMV? No thanks. When my collection was small, I used to enjoy browsing there. Now my collection is big, and I never find anything of interest (to me) in stock. And there is always a dreadful racket from the other departments.

    I know shops can get stuff in, but what does ordering via a shop offer me that I can't get from ordering via the Web? Higher prices and a trip up to town (tube fare: £4.60), and that's about it.

    Like pe-zulu, my enthusiasms simply aren't served by shops. Most of my recent purchases have come from Germany (Bloch's "Schelomo" played on the bass clarinet, which Moores told me was unobtainable - no problem for www.jpc.de, and the same was true of two discs of music by Schoeck never seen in the UK)... and from New Zealand (where there is lots of interesting music, and all but Lilburn unknown to any British store). I find the excitement of receiving a parcel a reasonable recompense for the now-lost pleasure of finding interesting music by browsing the stock of a physical shop.

    If I had within walking distance an excellent bricks-and-mortar shop such as the ones mentioned above, I'm sure I would use it in order to keep it alive. But I'm fast getting out of the habit of thinking of CDs as things that come from shops.
     
    NickM, Feb 23, 2005
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  14. eisenach

    Brabo

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    No RIP Classical CD's in Cheltenham

    For those for whom Cheltenham is within reach (I live in the Cotswolds sticks, and can be there within an hour) the shop to visit is "Sounds Good" visit www.soundsgoodonline.co.uk
    They are at 7 Henrietta Street, (centre of) Cheltenham, GL50 4AA, United Kingdom, Telephone: +44 1242 234604. The owner (Robert) is a fount of information, advice and great humour. What he doesn't stock he will order for you. He operates a loyaly card system, and I am getting 15% of all my purchases. I can recommend this outlet! I never use any other, not even the great Blackwells Music Shop in Oxford...
    Brabo
     
    Brabo, Jun 4, 2009
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  15. eisenach

    Soloist In my lonely furrow

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    With the loss of Zavvi and the complete lack of any proper recordings in HMV I am resigned to e-purchase. I have also recently bought several recordings in vinyl for 50p each in a couple of charity shops. Absolutely mint, good labels and not that old. People like my parents have just given up trying to play vinyl but hoard a massive collecton of records thay have played only a handful of times. These records are finding thier way into the charity shops as we get bombarded weekly with collections here.

    Not having a proper classical record section in the high street is a missed opportunity by the national chains.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2009
    Soloist, Jun 5, 2009
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  16. eisenach

    SMEagol Because we wants it...

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    There was a fantastic one in a cellar in Chinatown Manchester, cannot think what its called though. Sadly closed though.
     
    SMEagol, Jun 5, 2009
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  17. eisenach

    Gag Halfrunt

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    This isn't going to be a popular statement, but the reason why there are less classical music shops (and less classical music on disc) comes down to you, the classical music buyer. At least in part.

    Back when the classical album was an important sub-set of music buying, the listener was prepared to invest in their recordings. This was in the tacit understanding that paying a premium meant getting a better quality product, and paying those who made that product a living wage.

    Then everyone got greedy. Artistes began to act like celebrities and demand celebrity salaries. At the same time, buyers started bargain hunting and the whole shooting match began to collapse in upon itself.

    The problem going forward is one of educating the next generation. Good, independent record shops had a knowledgeable staff that could make someone more from genre to genre and deepen the listener's interest and understanding of the music. I have the guy from a little specialist shop called Kitharion Records to thank for taking my teenage interest in ELP into an interest in Aaron Copland and from there 'hoiking' me into Barber, Albinoni and then onward. Were I simply buying off iTunes or Amazon, my teenage interest in ELP would have gone no further than the limits of Prog Rock.

    His shop closed long ago, because people kept asking for premium products at discount prices.

    This is the key problem. Classical music does not sell in the sort of numbers to make price discounting economically viable for most labels. This means the output and scope of a label is either reduced to pop classics (that sell comparatively well), forced to sell back catalogue and not much else or do the Naxos model of recording the Kamchatkan Symphony Orchestra or the Latvian Bus Drivers String Quartet because they are cheap.

    The majority of classical recordings currently released sell less than 10,000 at the moment. With those numbers, the costs involved in making a classical recording are difficult to recoup at premium price, but you want to pay as little as possible for these recordings. How do you expect this to last?

    Is it any wonder classical labels and classical stores are closing?
     
    Gag Halfrunt, Jun 8, 2009
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  18. eisenach

    Marc

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    Well, of course the classical cd market is going downwards, and shops have to close: the times they are a-changin'.
    But in my town there's been far more damage done to the pop stores. The pop stores that are left are mostly selling dvd's, blu-rays and games now.

    And I also think that there are far more classical music lovers still willing to pay for mid- and full-priced cd's, compared to pop music fans. In general, I find those 'classicals' more old-fashioned when this is concerned. The pop lovers just want to download everything for 'free'.

    I myself still buy around 90% of my music in the average cd shop. Even though most internet offers are cheaper and even though I'm far from a wealthy man. I just like to sniff around, have a chat with the shop-owner(s) and then buy or order something. But that's just my own old-fashioned self.

    I also strongly disagree with the rather downgrading description of the Naxos label. Their catalogue is very good, and in many cases much more interesting than the Warner and Universal record companies. And many Latvian and Kamchatkan Bus Musicians are capable to perform very well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2009
    Marc, Jun 12, 2009
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  19. eisenach

    sydneyboy

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    RIP cd shops

    The situation re classical cd shops appears parlous wherever one turns. Here in Sydney we have but 2 dedicated classical cd shops-Fish Fine Music and Michael's-for a city of 4 million people. I work on Saturdays for Fish. We give discounts to preferred/regular customers and are complimented on our range and our knowledge of classical music. This is something you can never get from Amazon or MDT-although I buy a lot from MDT. We have a large group of regular customers who teach us often as much as we teach them. We also have discount demanders who get short shrift from me. I remember when Sydney had 6 classical dealers 9 (new) and 2 second hand dealers. Shopping was a real adventure then. Like so many others good record shop employees introduced me to music I never dreamed existed. We can only hope the present dearth of shops will not last.
     
    sydneyboy, Jul 8, 2009
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  20. eisenach

    sammyo

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    I miss Fish Fine Music - I haven't found any shops in London that I like as much. HMV and (until about 2004) Grace Bros also used to have very good classical sections in Sydney.

    Gag Halfrunt: I like Barber and Copland but don't know anything about ELP - by reverse reasoning, is this something I should be getting into?
     
    sammyo, Aug 2, 2009
    #20
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