simaudio W-5 vs. Krell Kav-2250

I am looking for audio equipment for a future media room ( approx. 12 X 22
feet) that is being planned as part of our home renovations. I will be starting from scratch, so I want a CD player, amp, pre-amp (vs. integrated amp), and 2 floorstanding speakers. For surround sound/cinema I probably will use a more affordable "high-end" A/V receiver for surround processing and for driving the 2 rear speakers, the center channel, and the subwoofer. THe 2 front speakers will be driven by the Moon or Krell amp, by using the A/V pass-through input in the preamp. (just a thought, as I probably can't afford the Moon or Krell A/V pre/pro and amps)

I have recently auditioned the simaudio Moon P-3 (or was it the P-5 ??), Moon W-5 with Focal JMlab Electra 936's, plus the simaudio Moon Nova CD player. Just listening to a few tracks of radiohead (amnesia) and I was ready to take it home.

However, I am also wondering about Krell as another option. But, the closest Krell dealer is about 800 miles from me. My question relates to going with the Krell KAV-280p plus KAV-2250 as an alternative to the P-3 (or P-5)/W-5 combination. Given that I can't compare
them here locally, does anyone have any personal experience listening to both the Krell Kav vs. simaudio separates ?? For that matter what about the Krell integrated amp KAV 400 compared to the
W-5 ?

As a reference for my question, I listen to mainly rock and alternative rock (U2, radiohead, REM, ryan adams, beck, coldplay and female vocalists e.g. Natalie Merchant, Beth Orton etc.)

Thank you.

 

Hi Thom and welcome to the forum.

I can't comment on any of the kit you've mentioned but if I was looking at to get kit of this budget (or indeed a lower or higher one), I wouldn't use a forum as a definitive judge on if to get one piece of kit or another. Perhaps is there was the possibility os being able to sell it on without significant loss. I'm sure you'll get some good advice, opinions and alternative and such, but i'd still prefer to ultimately give the krell and others an audition myself before splashing out.

Starting from scratch and with that budget of kit. Yummy

Have fun and good luck.

MO

edit: Also, many here tend to buy their kit second hand ex-deMO/display etc. This not only helps to give you MOre scope, but also has the benefit of meaning that if you research it you should be able to sell on without a real loss if something should change down the line.

 

Hi Thom, welcome to the forum.

I am biased, but go for the Sim. Far more musical and alive than the Krell kit IMO. Krell stuff seems to be a bit 'hifi' sounding to me.

This thread may help

http://zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2008

Cheers, Robbo

 

Hi Thom,

As a Sim owner again I may be biased but IMHO it isn't even close!

The P5/W3 combination that I use is world class, and is typically compared with Krell's reference FPB amps, that cost at least double the price of the Sim kit.

I like the slight warmth in the bass that the Sim amps seem to possess, plus the natural and full tonal palette that can remind you of the finest valves. The Krell is more punchy, but also starker, drier, and lacking in communication to these ears.

The KAV2250 is what I would describe as a posh PA amp, and I have yet to hear ANY Krell preamp that performs adequatly. The Sim P5 however is as good a SS Pre as there is in the world at the moment. All in my (and many others!) personal opinion of course.

One other combo that has impressed me is the big Mcintosh preamp feeding a bridged Bel Canto Evo4. What front speakers are you going to be running?

 

I really liked the W-5 with Focal JMlab Electra 936's. So, I was considering them strongly. In the past I was also really impressed with the ProAc 2.5's, but like the Krell stuff it is not available locally.

 

Where are you based Thom?

 

Hi Thom,
I have my nova/p5/w5 with Totem Forest. If you get a chance, try that combo too. Read somewhere before that Simaudio uses Totem speakers among others in their factory (which isn't surprising since they are both Canadians). While choosing speakers to partner my Moon gears, I demo-ed a few other speakers and was happiest with the Totems. have fun.

 

Now that sounds like a fun combination I have always liked the Totems and I can see the Moons producing a very dynamic and upbeat sound with them.

FWIW, Moon typically show with Merlin at CES and Dynaudio in Canada.

I have tried the P5/W3 with Proacs and they work well, the lively Sims bringing the best out of the smooth and warm Proacs.

 

Yes Merlin, I was told about Sim voicing with Merlin and Gershman Acoustics too. But since in this part of the world, no dealers carry these two brands, i have to give them a miss during the audition.

 

I live on the far eastern reaches of Canada. THis makes it tough to audition many of the available speakers. My simaudio dealer does primarily carry the JM Lab line, but also carries ProAc (on order only). They had the 936's in the audio room and the combo blew me away listening to Radiohead Amnesia.

A practical question for any simaudio fans:

What would be the trade off going with P-3 plus the W-5 amp combo(along with simaudio Nova as the CD player) ?? I am not sure what I would lose by going with the less expensive preamp instead of the P-5 ?? While initially I was thinking the P-3/W-3 combo, I worry I may find that I want more power then the W-3 and therefore am setting my sights more on the W-5. It was the W-5 that I auditioned with the Focal 936's. Too bad I can't do a direct side by side comparison to the ProAc D25.

 

Hi Thom,

Personally, I would go for the P5/W3 combo. The difference between the 2 pre-amps is more significant than the difference between the 2 power amps....at least to me....unless, of course if you absolutely need the extra power.

 

Obviously, I need to seriously listen to the P-3 and P-5 myself to see. I am really worried about the power, for when I really want to listen loud in this room that we are planning. [I am not sure the exact dimensions yet, but the space is roughly 22 by 13 feet. We still need to refine things with the architect and the home theater guy to deal with sound isolation, acoustics etc.] Thus, I think I would want the W-5 for power.

But, for the preamp can you be more specific as to what the price difference will provide going with the P-5 over the P-3. What specific differences did you notice that swayed you to go with the more expensive preamp to mate with the W-3 ?

 

I'd agree with Moonrock, the P5/W3 combination should be the better option, indeed it has been said that the W3 is the more musical amplifier of the two.

Certainly if you are mating it with the likes of JM Labs, there will be plenty of gain. In addition remember that the P5 allows for full balanced connection, again resulting in a more powerful overall presentation.

I have the W3 in a room not that different to yours and I doubt it has ever got near to running out of steam. I would have gone for the W5 if I owned something like a Martin Logan or something with low efficiency or very large bass drivers. The JM's have neither as far as I am aware.

 

On top of what Merlin said, I find that the P5 out-perform the P3 sonically in (almost) all areas. It's a case of whatever you can do, I can do better. Please don't get me wrong, the P3 is a good pre-amp on its own but after hearing the P5, I knew immediately what I wanted. I thought the 3 was quiet, but the 5 was quieter. I thought the 3 was lively, but the 5 was livelier. Across all the frequency range, the 5 stood out quite handsomely. I just have this feeling that you'll end up with the P5/W3 combo (maybe even the P5/W5) after you do a direct comparison at the dealer's. Enjoy.

 

On top of what Merlin said, I find that the P5 out-perform the P3 sonically in (almost) all areas. It's a case of whatever you can do, I can do better. Please don't get me wrong, the P3 is a good pre-amp on its own but after hearing the P5, I knew immediately what I wanted. I thought the 3 was quiet, but the 5 was quieter. I thought the 3 was lively, but the 5 was livelier. Across all the frequency range, the 5 stood out quite handsomely. I just have this feeling that you'll end up with the P5/W3 combo (maybe even the P5/W5) after you do a direct comparison at the dealer's. Enjoy.

 

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I guess I found a couple of simaudio fans. Makes me proud to be a canadian eh.

So far I don't detect many fans of the Krell KAV line ???? Why is the KAV400xi so hard to keep stocked ?? Someone is buying it.

Perhaps, I am on the right track with the Moon stuff and I need to decide P-3 vs. P-5 and between the W-5 vs. W-3. Has anyone listed to simaudio with ProAc Response 2.5's or the D25.

Off topic, as part of another purchase what about the Cambridge Audio azur 640C and 640A as an inexpensive stereo system in our kitchen sitting area. Has anyone looked at this newer stuff critically. I can't find many editorial reviews, and I am waiting to go audition it myself.

 

Thom,

Yes I am delighted with Sim, it's presence on the world stage kind of redresses the balance following Bryan and Celine

I don't know about the 2.5, but the P5/W3 certainly worked wonders with the 1sc over the Xmas break. Made the little devils sound positively huge! Logically it should work very well with Proacs, I have owned most of them at one point or another. PM me if you are interested in Proac

 

Merlin, you beat me to it.

I am sure that the sim gear will work very well with ProAc speakers. They will compement each others strengths.

PS Have you still got those 1SCs? Fancy a back to back comparison of stock 1SCs against my tweaked up pair? Using the finest partnering equipment of course

 

Robbo,

sadly I got the 1scs for a mate, but couldn't resist playing with them prior to collection. Nice! And the Sim seems to give them an extra octave of bass, even sitting on crap Atacama stands.

Admittedly they were stock, but sure looked nice in Ebony. If I have to downsize from the VSM's, I may well be searching out a pair myself.