Spreading the word

[GTM]

ok.. I think some ideas as to how we can spread the word of "zeroGain"...

I'm all for putting together a raiding party to go and club a few heads and get them signed up before they know what's hit them !!

Any other suggestions?

Would Joel be willing to redirect his site to here for a period ?


GTM

 

[Robbo]

Joel did mention that he was prepared to do that to catch the stragglers. will talk to him.

Robbo

 

[lAmBoY]

This will also capture some old problems.

Leapords and spots.

This could be the road to hell (a bit of Rea there for you)

Please dont allow FW back. (someone had to say it).

 

[MO!]

If you want to catch them, I think it's best to get in there early! That way they wont feel so uneasy about the clique that was present and mentioned as being off puttin on GH!

The decision is however if you wish to face the same "problems" that caused the birth of GH in the first place.

No matter how good GH was, no one can deny it was becoming a bit stale. New blood is needed but with that comes the same "problems".

The decision/compromise is yours...........

 

[michaelab]

I think Joel's going to do a one off mailshot from GH to let everyone know about this place. He also said he was willing to setup a temporary re-direct here so that should help people who find GH through Google etc.

I don't think that this place is really in any danger of becomming newbie central. HFC has that issue because it's associated to a magazine IMO. Having said that I wouldn't want to put anyone off but one of the nice things about GH was that most everyone there was relatively experienced with hifi and was on perhaps their 2nd or 3rd system.

So far the take up from ex-GHers seems to be pretty impressive I'm open to ideas about how we can keep the momentum going though, a certain amount of "new blood" (even newbie blood) would perhaps not be a bad thing.

Michael.

 

[Robbo]

I compare an internet forum to a fish pond with a leak in it.

unless you have a constant new supply of water filling it up, eventually it will empty out due to the outflow from the hole at the bottom.

We dont want to be a group of big fishes swimming in ever smaller amounts of water until it dries up! Is that a bollocks analogy or what

What I am saying is that we need a constant influx of new members to keep this place healthy and increase the diversity of views. This ws one of the main problems woth GH.

Cheers, Robbo

 

[michaelab]

I agree with you Robbo but I don't know how to get that influx of new blood Having said that, I think once a forum gets beyond a certain crictical mass it starts to pick up new members a lot better. Curiously I think that GH had just about reached that point and was starting to get over its 'stale' patch. All the more pity that it was closed down

Michael.

 

[TonyL]

I'm open to ideas about how we can keep the momentum going though, a certain amount of "new blood" (even newbie blood) would perhaps not be a bad thing.

Two things have helped greatly with pfm: a main web site that is well registered with all the search engines and a healthy second hand room. I've got reviews / revision lists / manuals of a few key products up on the main www.pinkfishmedia.co.uk homepage so people finding these via the search engines also find a link to the forum. The free ads room works really well as bait, people register to advertise stuff and then realise they like the forum and start to contribute ââ'¬â€œ the 'brand fan club' forums like Naim / Mana etc don't offer this.

I also think you can over do the throughput of new people to a forum, I never liked HFC much as to my mind it was far too busy and took too long to work out who was who. Too much noise to signal...

Tony.

 

[MO!]

I think the way to "compromise" (?) between having newbies and not the repeated questions is to have a strong FAQ section. So when the reaccuring "will my DVD be good enough as a CDp" questions start it's easy enough to refer them to the FAQ after which they can ask away. Make sense?

Remember, newbies and people with lower end kit (like MOself) can know just as much about the music side of things! A good mix is best IMO!

 

[MO!]

Just noticed....... where would the FAQs go?

 

[michaelab]

Good point - no place for a FAQ yet. I guess it's only really appropriate to have a FAQ for kit related questions so we could have a sticky in that section but until we've got a FAQ it's not really worth doing.

I'll see if there's anything worth nicking from other sites

Michael.

 

[MO!]

I'd started on a FAQ about Richer Sounds! I'm sure it'll be useful to all you Won't get time to finish it till middle of next week probably.

One about how to integrate hifi and AV will be usefull too!

 

[michaelab]

I might put together a little doc about how to integrate hifi with AV and the various options - not promising a deadline though, afterall, I haven't got anything else to do

Michael.

 

[MO!]

Think this should go here. seems to be quite a few threads here saying pretty much the same things!

I think this may have already been mentioned but, how about having a thread (perhaps on chat, or even a few words at the start of the welcome thread) asking how people heard about here. This would give an idea of where potential members can be found.

 

[Lawrie]

Chaps,

This is my first post here, so please take it easy with a newbie - assuming newbies are welcome at ZeroGain?

I've just been reading the FFRC thread and I concur with Cookiemonster in saying that someone's criticism of the audio gear I choose to use does not bother me but I can understand that some people are sensitive to such criticisms. However, on a public forum especially one as new as ZeroGain, which is still trying to attract new members, and distance itself from some of the criticisms (of clique-ism etc) that were levelled against Groovehandle, the wording of gear we do not like is important. I quit Groovehandle a while back for several reasons but without a fanfare announcing my departure. As an outsider looking into Groovehandle, one of the common trade marks of some Groovehandlers, in addition to frowning on newbies (which not even Audio Asylum does as today's newbie is tomorrow's audiophile) was to constantly deride other peoples choices of equipment over and over again. It got a bit tedious reading criticisms of Naim, Musical Fidelity etc or that ATCs don't do bass or even that the Resolution Audio Opus 21 CD player was "naff" (which I presume means "crap"). This last one really surprised me as I have heard that player several times and it certainly is not "naff" or "crap". Was there an ulterior motive to these criticisms or were they genuine? Search me!!!

Non-constructive criticisms (such as this item is "crap" or "naff" without an explanation) and bake-offs (nothing wrong with the latter, btw) became the order of the day on Groovehandle and topics got stuck in a loop. Egos took over and arguments ensued. It would therefore, be a shame if ZeroGain also fell into the same pattern and failed to attract new active members. More new active members means more diversity in equipment and more interesting topics to debate and comment on. Constantly deriding other people's gear is not going to bring in many new active members especially if they are using the equipment in question. Disliking a piece of equipment and giving reasons for it is one thing - but to constantly harp on about how "crap" it is is an entirely different matter. It's not how many members you have signed up on Zerogain's register that counts, it's the number that actually post (active members) that really matters and this was where Groovehandle got it's "clique" reputation from as the regular posters seemed to be those that attended bake-offs and any outsiders to this "clique" perhaps not using the "recommended" Groovehandle equipment got laughed out of town especially by one Groovehandler (and now a ZeroGainer) in particular, whose words on what represented "good sound" appeared to be final. Again, the above was what I noticed as an outsider looking into Groovehandle and I see the beginnings of a similar pattern emerging here at ZeroGain - perhaps because a lot ex-Groovehandlers are also now at Zerogain?

You guys now have a chance (and the desire) to make ZeroGain into something better than Groovehandle. It is possible but everyone, with the active participation of the Moderators (who must not be seen to be taking sides) has to work at it. In time, the forum would find it's own level without trying too hard. This message will now self-destruct after....................................




Enjoy the music!!

Lawrie:MILD:

 

[michaelab]

An excellent post Lawrie and a lot of very valid and important points.

You and everyone else here are encouraged to let me and the other mods (julian2002, Robbo, cookiemonster) know if you think things are going the way of cliqueism or baseless and unjustified (and particularly, repeated) criticism of certain bits of kit.

Michael.

 

[cookiemonster]

Lawrie,

good to see you. i agree with many of your points, and particularly the need for a balanced approach without any bullying or condescension from active members, and moderation in the interests of the forum, and its members as a whole.

However, i am concerned with the nature of your post, and if i am allowed the indulgence to be honest for a second, this is also what concerned me with the nature of CJ's recent posting. The fact that you have casually observed like a newspaper reporter for a period of time, and then written a critical and acute review and then posted it right here in the forum. Now that in itself is not a problem, but i get the impression that you have no desire to post here?....as when you say:

You guys now have a chance (and the desire) to make ZeroGain into something better than Groovehandle

...like you won't be a part of it (which would be a shame BTW)

I don't think it is appropriate to comment or commentate on the activities of a forum, if you have no intention of being an active member of that forum in the first place. It's not that your points aren't valid or constructive, but i get the impression, especially from other forum members, that it is this 'perceived' aloofness which causes some antagonism and episodes such as the recent 'fruitiness' over the FFRC thing.

I hope you can appreciate the honesty of my comments - they are not meant in an aggressive fashion (i'm merely playing devils advocate), and it would be good for everybody if you were an active membver of the forum, and then contribute to some of the issues which you raised in the above post, along with everyone else - hopefully creating a stronger more eclectic/vibrant forum.

Many regards

 

[kermit]

just wanted to say , you made a good choice , when you made cookiemonster a moderator .
inmho , he has handled the situation well.
i must say i blame myself for the ffrc spat .
but , i started questioning with good intentions .
i had already noticed one new arrival get upset over the "crap" moniker , and lets face it , if we chase all the new blood away we will end up with a stale forum .
the hope was that with a discussion that looked for serious alternatives to ffrc , then some good would come from it .
lets face it this hifi"world" that we live in is made up of many different types of people and some of those like the diy side of things .but , there is only so much diy that can be done and the main (and easiest)part is cables .
some people take pride in making their own , and the last thing i wanted to see is this section of people be chased away from here .
unfortunately , what i hoped to achieve with the discussion did not materialise , and i have a feeling the oppurtunity is lost now , as people will stay away from the subject for fear of a repeat of the last episode .

 

[timpy]

Indeed Cookiemonster has acted very fairly IMO.

I don't think you should be blaming yourself Kermit to be fair.

And if it'll help I'll just refer to FFRC as "disappointing" from now on, as opposed to the more colourful term I adopted from a press-ganged panelist.

I don't think that FFRC was the centre of the argument though, more the key that opened Pandora's box, from which, and without much in the way of prior warning, jumped CJ with all hackles raised. Ho humm...

There won't be any repeat arguments. I for one won't be arguing.

Cheers

 

[Lawrie]

Originally posted by cookiemonster


I don't think it is appropriate to comment or commentate on the activities of a forum, if you have no intention of being an active member of that forum in the first place.

Many regards

Ah Cookiemonster,

Thanks for the welcome (and also Michaelab)!! Gee, I'm chuffed. Now to answer your 'charge' Cookiemonster, I think you read too much into my comments as no where in my post did I give the indication that I had no intention of posting to regular debates here. Perhaps this is where the difference between a native English speaker (such as yourself) and someone like myself comes in as maybe I could have used different words. Granted, I view ZeroGain with some suspicion as I see it an extension of Groovehandle but also, it is a 'new forum' under new leadership, so I am willing to give it a try.

I still enjoy lurking and ocassionally posting on the HFC Forum - a place that some of the ZeroGain regulars have been "spitting on" recently because it is frequented by beginners. I simply enjoy this hobby and refuse to adopt a high-browed attitude towards certain pieces of hifi equipment hence the fact that I still do post there and intend doing the same here. Anyway, Cookiemonster, it's good to see you up there as Moderator. Go get 'em dude!!!




Enjoy the music!!

Lawrie:MILD: