Sugden A21a-how does it really fare with hard to drive speakers?

specifically 86db 4ohm

I have heard so much about this amp,and i might be able to blag a cheapy,with an audition


but i wouldn't mind owners thoughts on the power thing,many reviewers state it should be partnered carefully,but........I don't listen to music loud,normally at conversation levels,and when on my own it doesn't go floor stomping

 

IME Sugdens don't like difficult loads, but a lot depends on how loud you listen and how big your room is. It's certainly worth a try, it's a lovely amp.

-- Ian

 

not loud at all,Zeppelin will get an airing,but not madly so

 

I think I've had this conversation before..... anyway, I've used an A21a with:
harbeth P3s (83dbW but easy load))
Audiophysic Tempo III (90 ish dbw but not an easy load)
Quad esl 988 (83dbw and middling load)

with all these speakers it was superb but I never go too loud.... only with the AudioPhysics did I ever notice a slight softness in the bass with big orchestral stuff which is why I eventually moved up to the Lavardin IT which is quite similar sounding, just more so.

P.S. I'm selling an A21a Power amp on the classified forum if anyone's interested.

 

In similar power to weight ratio territory - my Lavardin IS Ref - 35W (maybe 38) with 10 amps - seems to drive my Ruark Epilogue R (86 db) as loudly, effectively and actually with seemingly greater control as my Cyrus with 60W and 30 amps. Not sure why this is.

Also the lack of distortion and general attributes of the Lavardin provide much greater satisfaction at lower levels.

I know this isnt directly helpful regards the 21a, but it is a case for how lower power doesnt necessarily mean it will struggle with a 86 db speaker.

Are you're driving Audio Physic Sparks right? If so I know a place you could get a pair of mint Tempo III (90 db! sensitivity) for < 1000. Might kill two birds with one stone? PM me if you need further info.

 

we started it in the amp thread,but it never got finished

thanks for the reply

i think 86 and 4ohm may be ok,due to low volumes,will need to test,but if it scheap and i cant audition i may take a risk

 

You can never tell from the specs. Is that 4ohm an average, what's the impedence curve look like, etc etc. And one person's idea of "not loud" isn't the same as another's.

Definitely worth trying if you can get one at home before buying or can sell it on for what you paid for it (Sugden gear tends to hold its price pretty well in the secondhand market).

-- Ian

 

thanks Greg,yep Spark II,and I ma extremely happy with them,thanks anyway

 

Sideshow, a mag got an average of 6.6ohms when they tested the Sparks

 

Interesting, in what way are they not easy? I was considering them for the IS Ref but changed my mind a couple of days ago. Maybe I made the right decision.

 

The 'little' Sugden are Class-A, and will source current until they burst. Practically, this means that they - like any class A amp - will drive any speaker, but their compass is limited by how much current the speaker demands - up to that limit they sound fabulous.

25W into an 86dB/W speaker means that peaks are limited to c.99dB {86 + 10log(25)} - which in turn means max. average listening levels of about 85-89dB with most material. That's actually plenty loud, but don't expect rock-out-partytime . Then again, I'm pretty sure, from what you say about volume preferences (and my own experience) that sheer quality means you won't really need to.

Note if your speakers are actually rated as 86dB/2.83V input (sadly a popular ruse by manufacturers to make their wares appear more sensitive than they really are), knock 3dB off all the numbers.

Sorry, this all comes across as a bit technical and all I meant to say, in a qualified way, is just this: go for it. You'll have no problem selling the Sugden if ultimately it doesn't float your boat, but they are rare as rocking-horse shit secondhand for a very good reason....

felix
- user of an 18w amp and 92db+, 8ohm speakers ;-)

 

If it's any help, my old Sugden A21 (1971 model!) will drive a pair of Super Tablettes quite beautifully - not as loud admittedly - but with as much if not more control than my Exposure X, itself no whimp.

Supar Tabs are 86db/1W - couple of sub 6 Ohm dips but nowt else to get hot over.

PS. The Exposure's got more grunt than a friend's 8000A if it's any help (if you need a more modern comparison).
PPS. The Sugden's 12w/channel (always makes my mates larf).

 

FWIW I use my Sugden with Totem Arros and use the volume at 12 o'clock - very occasionally 10 past and my room is not too small, say 4m x 7m. I don't foresee any problems with normal use unless you live in a barn.

 

They are nominally 4 ohm, but I think I read that they dip below that in the bass. Certainly with the Sugden a21 I heard the bass go soft and slow in loud sections, a problem which the Lavardin IT cured. I never heard the sound break up with the sugden.

But overall, the A21 and tempo IIIs were still very good.

 

right,i am going to go for it.Will be interesting to see how it compares the Puccini SE,which some have described as a jnr A21a wannabe,ish

 

what is the difference between a line amp,and an intregated amp?

 

no phono stage I think?

 

I used a Sugden Masterclass (35w) integrated with my Dittons (84ishdB sensitivity and 8ohms) and it had no trouble getting some pretty decent levels...
However, a Lavardin IS ref was unable to produce similar levels without sounding terrible, though it had no difficulty with Audio Physic Libras (might be the octave less alleged bass..)

 

well,deal is done.I will soon know,picking it up this weekend,the A21a will be driving the Sparks whether it likes it or not

 

can't get passed 8oclock,how stupid do i feel worrying about it

I cant imagine i am using more than 10 or 15 of these Sugden Watts,god only knows what i would do with 100 or so of earthling watts

its fabulous btw