The Cable Test - listen and decide

[DavidF]

All joking aside, I just want people to stop and think about the magnitude of these so called differences and get things into proper perspective. There are hugely more important things to address in getting most systems to work well than fannying around with expensive wires and, in some cases components.

Jim Lesurf got it right - 'pick the system, then choose your favorite cable colour'

What are your recommendations, Rob?

 

[RobHolt]

No good describing things after the cables are revealed - it was a blind test.

 

[DavidF]

No good describing things after the cables are revealed - it was a blind test.

You feel some memebers are placing too much empahasis on cables and should be looking into other areas instead, I was curious to know which areas you think?

For your criticism to be valid surely thats a reasonable thing to ask?

FWIW I would never pretend hat cables makes dramatic differnence. Subtle but definite is how I would describe them.

It just depends, I guess, on whether you feel those improvements are worth having.


Refering back to your post, Rob, I do agree that speaker placement makes enormous sonic differences. Is that what you meant?

 

[RobHolt]

What are your recommendations, Rob?

For starters,

-Sorting the room acoustics.
-Understanding the way amplifiers drive loudspeakers - and not just enough power.
-Proper sighting of components and in particular TTs
-Using cartridges that don't distort horribly (>10% isn't uncommon at end of side!)
- Tone controls - if the system is tonally off then correct it properly - swapping a bit of coax for a twisted pair is pissing in the wind for the vast majority.
- Homework, homework, homework - don't just throw the reviewers choices together and then moan when it doesn't sound right, or turn up on a forum and say 'I've just put all this together and it sounds like shite, can someone suggest some wire to sort it' - pretty common post.

 

[RobHolt]

You feel some memebers are placing too much empahasis on cables and should be looking into other areas instead, I was curious to know which areas you think?

For your criticism to be valid surely thats a reasonable thing to ask?

Yes, I was answering Spica but you posted in between.

 

[DavidF]

For starters,

-Sorting the room acoustics.
-Understanding the way amplifiers drive loudspeakers - and not just enough power.
-Proper sighting of components and in particular TTs
-Using cartridges that don't distort horribly (>10% isn't uncommon at end of side!)
- Tone controls - if the system is tonally off then correct it properly - swapping a bit of coax for a twisted pair is pissing in the wind for the vast majority.
- Homework, homework, homework - don't just throw the reviewers choices together and then moan when it doesn't sound right.

Totally agree.

(IME cables are about positive improvemnt not patching things up.)

 

[DavidF]

Yes, I was answering Spica but you posted in between.

:MILD:

 

[RobHolt]

Totally agree.

(IME cables are about positive improvemnt not patching things up.)

David, that's it, move towards the light, the wonderful bright light...... that's it keep walking....step out of the darkness

 

[DavidF]

David, that's it, move towards the light, the wonderful bright light...... that's it keep walking....step out of the darkness

 

[spica]

No good describing things after the cables are revealed - it was a blind test.

problem ? there's no change, just a fuller explanation

 

[RobHolt]

[size=-2]*FWIW - I think that cables can sound different *and* the reasons for such audition always remain discernable by measurement in context... *and* that such differences remain _very_ small in magnitude. IOW, cable that measure the same *are* the same...but we might have to measure more than R-L-C[/size]

Worth a lot Martin!
Spot-on.

Donkeys years ago as a kid I lashed up some old passive pot in a box to drive the then Quad 405 mk1 at my Grandfathers.
I had about 5m of cheap coax between the pot and the amp.
Hi-Fi Answers at the time was raving about 'Archer Cable' - 300 ohm FM feeder cable available cheaply off the reel from Tandy.
So I bought some, stuck some plugs on it and...... yup, more open and extended at the top end.
Archer was about 15 puff pm while the coax was about 150 puff, so rolled off the top end.
Didn't understand why back then so just assumed that the Archer was 'better' cable.

Its why I bang on about people taking time to research the measurements and how to interpret them, in context as you say.
Not doing so is poking around in the dark and risks being taken for a fool, and having the wallet lightened in the process.

 

[sq225917]

Now the fun with cable two is all very well and good, but I'm making a habit here. I chose the most expensive cable in this test, and correctly picked the lathed track the other week.

Add that to my wonderful absolute phase sensitivity as tested on the Wam and I'm fast becoming 'golden eared'....

 

[DavidF]

Its why I bang on about people taking time to research the measurements and how to interpret them, in context as you say.
Not doing so is poking around in the dark and risks being taken for a fool, and having the wallet lightened in the process.

Yes, a good approach.

Sometimes you have to employ a division of labour and trust someone who know more about it than you.

I don't beleive I'm being taken for a fool at all or have been, although I hear what you say.

 

[Basil]

Outstanding!

 

[SteveS1]

All joking aside, I just want people to stop and think about the magnitude of these so called differences and get things into proper perspective. There are hugely more important things to address in getting most systems to work well than fannying around with expensive wires and, in some cases components.

Jim Lesurf got it right - 'pick the system, then choose your favorite cable colour'

To be fair Rob, do you know many people who think cable differences are a priority? I certainly wouldn't begin to play with cables until I was happy with everything else.

Not that I would seek to justify any such marginal differences as value. Mind you, nothing in Hi Fi could reasonably be considered vfm anyway. It's not that kind of hobby. Even the most basic rigs are expensive compared to what you can buy to play music in the home - it's only job.

I happen to think the speaker/room interface is by far the biggest factor - but regularly get flamed by 80's flat earth "source first' fundamentalists.

Steve

 

[bottleneck]

Roy Gregory - are you reading this??? llollolollolololol

 

[bottleneck]

rob thanks for all your efforts.

I think equipment racks are another good one. I hypohthesize that equipment sounds the same on the floor or cheap furniture than it does on expensive racking. Perhaps a test will prove me completely wrong? I genuinely don't know on that one.

 

[sq225917]

racking- for valve amps and turntables.... nuff said..

 

[DavidF]

I happen to think the speaker/room interface is by far the biggest factor - but regularly get flamed by 80's flat earth "source first' fundamentalists.


I wouldn't flame you for saying that.

rob thanks for all your efforts.

I think equipment racks are another good one. I hypohthesize that equipment sounds the same on the floor or cheap furniture than it does on expensive racking. Perhaps a test will prove me completely wrong? I genuinely don't know on that one.

The medical prefession go to great lengths to keep electronic stuff steady.

racking- for valve amps and turntables.... nuff said..

I think it depends on whether you enjoy experimenting with materials.

 

[penance]

The medical prefession go to great lengths to keep electronic stuff steady.

Yes they do, the equipment is normally well shielded from external interference and has a clean mains supply.
However they do not utilise any type of special support, most medical equipment is on fairly flimsy trolleys so as it can be easily moved yo where it is required.

Where I work we use active air suspension for isolation of measuring equipment. This is lazer measuring equipment that is accurate to .3 micron and the isolation is to help reduce any flex in the chasis between emmiter and reciever. It is not to isolate electronics, they are in a seperate enclosure and on a normal table.