The Cable Test - listen and decide

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by RobHolt, Aug 15, 2009.

?

I prefer......

  1. Cable 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Cable 2

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  3. Cable 3

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Cable 4

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  5. I cannot detect a difference

    15 vote(s)
    68.2%
  1. RobHolt

    RobHolt Moderator

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    I suspect you are right Chris but I'd agree with Simon on valve kit and TTs.
    A test could be done but the result is likely to vary greatly depending on the TT and valve amp used.

    FWIW I got rid of all my Sound Org & Mana stuff from the main system a few months ago and bought some wooden record storage cabinets which look far nicer and make better use of limited space.
    All my SS kit sits directly on this but I still float the TT above it on a Rega wall shelf, well away from the speakers.
    In fact, moving all of my vinyl into the listening room has improved the room acoustics - so win win.
     
    RobHolt, Aug 22, 2009
    #81
  2. RobHolt

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Very amusing, particularly the post-revelation comments from the usual two.
     
    The Devil, Aug 22, 2009
    #82
  3. RobHolt

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi All..

    I'm not simply saying valve amps and turntalbes -

    What I meant to say is ... with a recorded sample of (for example) a solid state amplifier on a wall rack, an expensive rack, and expensive rack with still points, and just stuffed onto the floor....

    with 5 'blind audio samples' as in this test, will our audience be able to detect a difference?
     
    bottleneck, Aug 22, 2009
    #83
  4. RobHolt

    DavidF

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    Thats an intersting question and frankly I don't know the ansnwer.

    It depends much the kit, some responds more than others.

    I think you would have no trouble with TTs.
     
    DavidF, Aug 22, 2009
    #84
  5. RobHolt

    Alan Sircom

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    I find it interesting that no-one picked the freebie cables.

    The overall sample is low and the numbers of those who expressed a preference are lower still, but if it's really no difference at all, shouldn't we be seeing a couple of outliers choosing Cable 1?
     
    Alan Sircom, Aug 22, 2009
    #85
  6. RobHolt

    DavidF

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    Yes, statistically the numbers are too low really.

    Also, dare I say it, that those who took part I suspect are the doubters anyway.
     
    DavidF, Aug 22, 2009
    #86
  7. RobHolt

    muz640

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    It was a good experiment, i thought cable 2 was the best! lol

    Speakers first for me too!
     
    muz640, Aug 22, 2009
    #87
  8. RobHolt

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Well, I'm a doubter, which is precisely why I didn't take part.

    Which statistical test is appropriate here?
     
    The Devil, Aug 22, 2009
    #88
  9. RobHolt

    RobHolt Moderator

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    In a way, those who chose 2 also so chose 1, as 2 was the same cable only made a little worse......

    If you read the comments, those expressing a preference (with one exception) found it hard to decide, and a couple admitted to guessing as the result was too close to call.

    My own feeling is that there was simply no difference to hear.
    Had I presented five identical files a small minority would have still found a preference. We can explore the reasons why.

    A little story that might help.
    In my day job I work in banking, commercial banking looking after the needs of a portfolio of business customers turning over approx £1m-£10m - SMEs.
    Recently I visited a bagel factory as there was a prospective change of ownership on the table.
    The company in question supply product to all of the big supermarkets - Tesco, Sainsbury, Morrisons, Waitrose and M&S, plus some of the smaller outlets.
    Walking around the factory it was clear that the focus was on one main product - fresh plain bagels that can either be supplied chilled or frozen.
    On reaching the end of the production line I was quite surprised to see the same product going into different wrappers (with the destination store logo) and with quite different product descriptions on the boxes.
    Same product with different labels and packaging.
    I'd bet my house on those buying the more expensive M&S or Waitrose version claiming it to taste better :)

    Literally food for thought.
     
    RobHolt, Aug 22, 2009
    #89
  10. RobHolt

    RobHolt Moderator

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    The believers were able to participate just as anyone else.
    If they didn't, I see that as only strengthening the argument that their claims are vacuous.
    People should stand by their claims.
     
    RobHolt, Aug 22, 2009
    #90
  11. RobHolt

    DavidF

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    A far from strong case unfortunatley.

    Maybe, like me, they really don't see why they should.

    Maybe, like me, they work unsociable hours and end up too knackered to do anything.



    I did notice you don't use bell wire....... ? :eek:;)





    "- One of my own cables built from commonly available parts for a few pounds."
     
    DavidF, Aug 22, 2009
    #91
  12. RobHolt

    Joe

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    If the same number had voted* and 15 had chosen the most expensive cable I don't suppose we'd be hearing complaints about the 'statistics' from the believers.

    *I didn't vote on this one because a) my audio memory can't retain more than one comparator at a time and b) I was involved in a barney on A N Other forum.
     
    Joe, Aug 22, 2009
    #92
  13. RobHolt

    DavidF

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    Originally Posted by The Devil
    Well, I'm a doubter, which is precisely why I didn't take part.



    Kurva!

    I can't believe that for a moment James!
     
    DavidF, Aug 22, 2009
    #93
  14. RobHolt

    DavidF

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    Very sensible, too.

    Like Rob, most of the sceptics will be using specialist i/cs at home anyway, so wth!!


    :D


    I'm off for a bike ride.



    :banghead:
     
    DavidF, Aug 22, 2009
    #94
  15. RobHolt

    muz640

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    Ive only ever been to one hifi show, i thought it was shocking how ordinary most rooms sounded, like the people selling the systems had no idea what real music sounds like at all!

    The best systems IMO (with a few exceptions) were all using unconventional speakers, ie panels, horns etc.

    The best bit was one room had some Accuphase and small standmount Focal speakers, I thought they sounded excellent for such a small space, they were playing some Nils Lofgren, a live recording.

    Both the CD player and the amp were on a perspex rack, the best bit was the guy doing the demo would start dancing around saying how good they sounded on the rack, hed then take the CD player of the rack and then stop dancing and say the sound was dead! lol! I could hear no difference at all, the Focal and the Accuphase still sounded great! (no doubt down to exceptional synergy and great engineering)

    I cant remember the name of the bloke (someone did tell me on another thread over on PFM)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2009
    muz640, Aug 22, 2009
    #95
  16. RobHolt

    Dave Simpson Plywood King

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    I didn't participate because I've found the differences in cables aren't worth getting worked up about. In my experience, it's largely small shifts in the frequency spectrum and on an extremely rare occasion, what appears to be a change in gain. Frankly, I'd be surprised if these differences survive any sort of testing with our Internet delivery system due to what must be minute distortions to begin with. Regardless, the differences (or lack of them) just aren't worth arguing over;-)
     
    Dave Simpson, Aug 22, 2009
    #96
  17. RobHolt

    Alan Sircom

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    Had you posted five identical files, I would have expected you to get a similar number of don't knows, with an even spread of people choosing A, B, C and D. But the numbers are very, very low.

    Nevertheless, of those who expressed a preference (I sound like a pet food advert), none of them expressed a preference for the standard giveaway lead. That they liked the messed up version of the same is possibly because of hearing a difference... irrespective of whether that sound is for the better.

    I wouldn't like to base my career on such things though.

    Oh!
     
    Alan Sircom, Aug 22, 2009
    #97
  18. RobHolt

    RobHolt Moderator

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    Well I don't know where you've been looking, but I use guitar cable costing 80p pm for my interconnects and 79 strand on the speakers.

    I build my own interconnects because I prefer Neutrik Profi plugs - you should check them out. They have a sprung outer connector so that the live centre pin always mates after the ground. Saves, pops, buzzes and bangs.

    If you quote me it helps to read the relevant posts first.
    "One of my own cables built from commonly available parts for a few pounds" refers to the chocolate wrapper, screw, key, solder and tie.

    Bell wire ain't good for most speakers and you should know why. Hint - look at the measurements.
     
    RobHolt, Aug 22, 2009
    #98
  19. RobHolt

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Sounds like "Larry" (who he?) to me.
     
    The Devil, Aug 22, 2009
    #99
  20. RobHolt

    The Devil IHTFP

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    I don't believe "kurva" is a statistical test.

    Whether you believe me or not is of no consequence.
     
    The Devil, Aug 22, 2009
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