The Cable Test - listen and decide

Larry? I cant remember what his name was, but his dancing was poor, if your gonna dance around to great music on an expensive hifi do it properly!

http://gizmodo.com/5142666/meet-ken-the-amazing-dancing-audiophile

 

Steve Jackson.

Good fun to watch but it's a classic sales technique and does the industry much harm IMO. But then this industry if full of it, sadly.

 

The Mana Effect.

 

Well i dont know if it did any harm (other than to wallets of the gullible) its only hifi!
I just found it funny, surely anybody with ears could hear it made no difference to the sound, the only difference was him dancing around, like Mr Claypole!

 

The nodding heads at these events indicate that some are persuaded. it is quite a skill.

My own theory for the prevalence of half-baked ideas and nonsense seen in recent years is that audio electronics evolved to a sufficiently good stage a few decades ago. Amps got good enough, CD came along and quickly established itself, analogue front ends even reached a high enough standard by the late 70s and early 80s. You could claim even earlier. Since then we just get a continual re-hashing of the same stuff with a slightly different flavour but little real progress.
So what to do?
Put the focus onto the scatty stuff out on the fringes and invent a whole new market. Trouble is, that stuff cannot stand solely on merit so a marketing machine and new techniques are required.

I once bought a load of Peter Belt stuff following a show dem using exactly the same tactics. Didn't half feel a prat soon after once the penny dropped.

 

Resumium niesbyt dobzre bo chcałbym resumium I movie po Polsku.

Nie ma czasu!

 

I suppose it is all a a bit crazy when youve got people spending thousands on cables running into speakers that dont have a hope of producing the frequency range present on the recording, ive never understood this (unless its for practical reasons like space or the wife being disproving etc)

This piece of writing in the link below seems great advice to me.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/commonsense_system_strategies/

 

No, because its sounds better. or might depending on yoiur and your system!

 

true yeah, its all down to what the individual conceives as important to them

 

A very good way of expressing it.



:notworthy

 

after much listening I didn't hear a difference, but that doesn't mean there wasn't any.
The limiting factor here could be the ADC stage , we don't know what was used , it might have been a Matsui cd recorder, Soundblaster sound card, onboard Realtek sound or a full on Lavry or Lynx set up?

I don't think the point proven here is that all cables sound the same , I think the point is more that all cables sound the same through whatever ADC you recorded it on.

 

Hmm. if the ADC can perfectly easily reveal other changes down the chain it should revel these differences. The butchered cheap cable was used specifically to exaggerate any difference as it was clear the 'but something is masking the differences' red herring would come up.
The ADC is detailed on page 1, post 9.

 

But doesn't the fact that the butchered cheap cable wasn't identified (as so many people couldn't detect any difference) actually lend some support to the 'but something is masking the differences' argument? Either that or we may as well all be listening through tin foil and keys, which I must admit I struggle to accept.

Would be interesting to see the results of this methodology on a variable that was universally accepted as making a significant difference.

 

Ibr, with regard to your first paragraph - I don't think it does.

With regard to your second paragraph; it would be a nice idea to be able to test the methodology in the way you describe. However, as far as I am aware, there are no cables that are "universally accepted as making a significant difference".

You are quite right though, a test should really include a control so as to be assured that the test is actually working - the problem with cables is finding such a control, a cable capable of giving a definite positive (or negative) result.

 

All I would add to that is that the test can and has been repeated live - ie without any ADC needed to get the files online - and the result is always the same. Some on ZG have taken part but mostly folk from PFM.
It's a test I always enjoy doing as the looks on the faces of those listening is always a pleasure to see
So in essence, if anyone retains any doubt just send me a PM and you can come hear for yourself.

It's funny that some people are so willing to dismiss the obvious reason why the cables sounded the same to them(or near as dammit), because they do sounds the same, and would rather look for excuses as to why their expectations don't agree with their ears.

Perhaps audiophile cables should carry a warning :
"Difference not audible on the following products...."
I note they don't, ever.

As for establishing controls, yes you can try but I'd argue that isn't necessary here.
I'm not trying to establish that all cables are identical in every way as clearly they are not. Were we to test some of those cables up at say 100-500khz when loaded under typical hi-fi component conditions I'm sure we'd get differences.
What matters is, are they close enough in performance such that the difference doesn't matter, ie it is extremely difficult or impossible to detect reliably, and is there any correlation between spending hundreds (or more) on audiophile cable when something costing a tenner will do just as well.
That is the purpose.

 

Rob, what are you trying to say?

You are as unlikely to convince those who are beleive cables are "foo" that they are not "foo" (or what ever the current expression might be) as to convince those who beleive there are differences, otherwise.

You appear to be going to a great deal of effort, where no effort is necessary.

I have always dealt with Pete because a) I've always felt he was trying to help me and b) he has never left me in any doubt that the cables are returnable if not satisfied.(the exception, in fairness, being the odd one off IIRC) c) his cables have always been reasonably priced.

As in my foot note, Rob , do let people experiment for themselves in a fascinating hobby with out someone trying to poison it for them!

Peple HAVE got minds of their own and can form their own conclusions!

 

I'm not looking for excuses to why the cables sound the same , I'm looking for what could be the limiting factor to why they do.

If you take 5 DACs ranging from a £20 asda DVD player to Lavry DA2002 and record them into an onboard soundcard, the chances are they will all sound the same. It isn't proof that all DACs are the same, it proves that the shitty recording medium isn't capable enough of distinguishing the differences.

Life would be wonderful if you could finally put the nail in the coffin of the OTT cable prices and bring these companies back to reality, but without showing people your methods of recording you aren't actually proving anything.

 

And with such a small sample no you aren't proving anything.

 

And so it goes .. you can lead a horse to water ... whatever .. carry on ... sorry for this interruption but it does remind me of doorstep discussions with religious & especially newly converted zealots .. its best to close the door.

 

The method was shown - Page one. The ADC is also detailed there (post 9).

The ADC in question has so far recorded around 60 album tracks on PFM for the various bake-off threads so you can download and listen at will, and read the comments.
The ADC isn't intelligent though, so when I replace say the Rega felt mat on the TT with a Linn felt mat and the difference is clearly audible (and visible on the output trace), it appears not to be masking. Odd that it then switches to masking mode when changing cables. Sorry, it doesn't hold water.