The Maxell Ad and shock reveletions!

[merlin]

Remember the old Maxell tape ad with the dodgy looking new romantic type sitting in the chair? Well I now know how he must have felt and it's great entertainment

I have recently had an offer for my Tact, sad thing is the JBL subs have been adding a sense of ease to my system that has been addictive, even if the affect is subtle. The subs have no internal crossovers so I would need to get something to replace the Tact should I let it go.

Well, I started playing with crossover frequencies to try to find what works best, and just for a laugh thought I would feed the subs direct without a low pass filter The drive units crossover in the 9800K2 speaker at 800hz and my measurements show the subs output is pretty flat up to around 700hz so I thought why not! Well obviously subs should be crossed over as low as possible to fill in below the mains without overlapping. Plus bass is directional above around 80hz. Or so the theory goes.

Well bollox to all that, to use the ZG venacular, suddenly I had seriously good sound, bass thwack that would scare even WM, and such body and palpability that vocalists took on a whole new emotional level. Running through the likes of Leftfield, K&D and Underworld, I was pinned to my chair, every vibration felt as if the disc was encoded in sensorama! Try something more delicate. Dido, Lambchop and Eleanor McEvoy, shit it still sounds better. More body, scale and expressiveness. A bit more colouration but the imaging is intact if not better.

So what the frick is going on Have I created a monster or are the traditional theories on sub integration simply wrong and current commercial subs inherently flawed?

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by merlin
So what the frick is going on Have I created a monster or are the traditional theories on sub integration simply wrong and current commercial subs inherently flawed?

Sounds great.

I believe that sound is less directional to higher frequencies in smaller rooms, which may be helping. What happens to the imaging?

Do you have an idea of how the sub rolls off naturally and where?

 

[merlin]

Re: Re: The Maxell Ad and shock reveletions!

Originally posted by 7_V
Sounds great.

I believe that sound is less directional to higher frequencies in smaller rooms, which may be helping. What happens to the imaging?

Do you have an idea of how the sub rolls off naturally and where?

Steve, the imaging is really unaffected, there is less air but far more palpability. You would expect localisation of instruments and vocals to suffer due to lobing effects but I cannot detect it.

My measurements suggest that the subs are rolling off at about 1khz so the only conclusion I can draw is that the 1500AL 15" driver has both very low distortion and amazingly musical qualities.

I guess I should have avoided trying it, as I now desperately want to have the big JBL's for my system, small speakers suck full stop! I will be calling the importer today, stay tuned!!

 

[julian2002]

merlin,
seeing as just the drivers cost more than most of us spend on our whole speakers and they are rated into the mid-bass range, personally i'd be expecting them to handle most things you could throw at them. having experienced them first hand and seen part of their capability as truly terrifying sonic weaponry i'm a little worried now you've let them off the leash. aparently there was a massive solar flare on wednesday and my area had a power cut last night, please stop your madness now before you kill us all.
cheers


julian

 

[Matt F]

Re: Re: Re: The Maxell Ad and shock reveletions!

Originally posted by merlin
....the only conclusion I can draw is that the 1500AL 15" driver has both very low distortion and amazingly musical qualities.

The two (low distortion and "musicality") go hand in hand as far as I am concerned. Also, if subwoofer distortion does raise it's ugly head it's usually in the lower <40Hz frequencies so if the JBL's are playing clean down low then I would imagine you'd have practically zero distortion up higher.

Sounds like you just need a tiny pair of monitors to accompany them - Gallo Micro's anyone?

Also, have you tried listening to just the subs with a 1kHz roll off? - it would be interesting to hear what comes through them.

Matt.

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by julian2002
merlin,
i'm a little worried now you've let them off the leash.
julian

Julian, they were mere ***** cats, now they roar like a lion!

Inspector Check One last night managed the not inconsiderable feat of knocking over a photo frame It's like sitting in one of those Japanese Massage Chairs with big headphones on! Now I can say that WM's bass is lacking

Sounds like you just need a tiny pair of monitors to accompany them - Gallo Micro's anyone?

Matt you are right, I am now thinking about building a satellite to work from 500hz upwards. But I'm gonna see if I can get a deal on the 9800K2 first

 

[lowrider]

What about one or two of those drivers 7_V uses, no xover and all... :JPS:

 

[merlin]

Antonio, I don't really need the extension of the Bandors, a couple of 3" ATC domes and Scany rev should do the trick. I must admit, I want the big boys badly now, I have arranged for a week's home dem starting Saturday week. I will try them out and then decide whether to build my own or buy the K29800 (bang there goes the house!)

It's difficult to explain, but small bass units simply aren't capable of this kind of natural bass weight. It's a bit revelatory, like your first exposure to panels. And to think there is some ignoramus over on PF claiming that small bass drivers are the best and big cones screw up the treble! Unbelieveably none of the supposed intelligencia over there have yet seen fit to tell him he's mistaken. It truly is a different shaped world over there.

 

[sideshowbob]

Merlin, none of my business, but if I was you I'd do what you were planning to do, i.e., buy a house instead. It's only hi-fi dude, you need somewhere to live where the kit has a bit of room to breathe.

-- Ian

 

[julian2002]

mike,
nooooooooo, get yourself a house. keep the subs, sell everything else and then rebuild with some panels later.
cheers


julian

 

[7_V]

Nah, get yourself 8 or 10 of the 15" subs and mount them in a huge concrete enclosure. That'll give you some natural bass weight.

Forget the house. Come winter you can sleep in the speaker cabinet.

 

[merlin]

Awww go on, I could get a smaller house

I know and thanks for the sanity check guys, I've sold some stuff anyway already and just need to make some more money.

Now if any of you out there have company mobiles and want an independent tariff analysis from one of the UK's leading corporate suppliers that results in substantial savings for your company, then maybe we can help each other

 

[lowrider]

Antonio, I don't really need the extension of the Bandors, a couple of 3" ATC domes and Scany rev should do the trick.

A couple of SF Auditors should do that trick nicely... :JPS:

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by merlin

Now if any of you out there have company mobiles and want an independent tariff analysis from one of the UK's leading corporate suppliers that results in substantial savings for your company, then maybe we can help each other

Get out of town!!! I cant believe it!!! are we corporate rivals, and comerades only in hifi? :O

 

[Robbo]

Merlin,

How do you match the respective sensitivities of the sats and subs if they are being driven full range? Or are you still using the crown amp?

I would have thought that it would be best to build a pair of top quality sats, put them on top of the subs and rig up some sort of crossover affair which crosses over to the subs in the 200-400 hz range.

I am sure Stuart will be able to help you with the crossovers if you ask him nicely

Robbo

 

[Paul Ranson]

Who needs more than 1kHz? Keep just the subs.

Paul

 

[The Devil]

Originally posted by merlin

..... Dido, ....

So what the frick is going on...

You have been listening to Dido, that's all we need to know...

 

[merlin]

Re: Re: The Maxell Ad and shock reveletions!

Originally posted by The Devil
You have been listening to Dido, that's all we need to know...

I'll have you know sir that the singer in question brings tears to the eyes of no lesser music afficionado than Mohammed Al Fayed, who I understand is sadly dyslexic

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by bottleneck
Get out of town!!! I cant believe it!!! are we corporate rivals, and comerades only in hifi? :O

I doubt we are corporate rivals, I spend most of my time helping people who make the mistake of dealing with the large corporations.

How do you match the respective sensitivities of the sats and subs if they are being driven full range? Or are you still using the crown amp?

Neil, yes I am using the Crown to do the bass duties, so I just adjust level on that, like you would with a normal sub. Had some fun playing around last night, trying it on classical material (Berlioz). I would have loved to have seen Graham N's face when the big timpani comes in

They do add a slight colouration I admit, the very low stuff is tonally slightly different. But when you are having that much fun you tend not to care. I have got the K2's coming over next weekend, there is the possiblity that they will kick arse even when fed from a £1000 integrated, so it might be a good way to go in the short term. I can't wait to see the guy's face when they realise they've got to setup £20K speakers in my little room