The old stuff ain't that bad

Was up at my parents today and listened to a CD or two on my dad's system which comprises:

- Philips CD104 CD player (1982 - one of the first ever CD players. 14bit DAC with 4x oversampling. There aren't many of these babies left in working condition but this one is still mint )

- Rotel integrated circa 1990. Can't remember the model name but it was a budget to mid-range model.

- Pair of Rogers JR149s (the LS3/5a clones that had a cylinder shape) bought in around 1978....in Tehran :MILD: . They're in perfect nick except for the foam covering which has long since rotted away but I rather like the bare metal look.

The speakers are connected up with little more than bell wire. They're also sitting on the floor so not remotely in a good position but I was surprised at what a good sound the whole system was making. People keep saying the old 80s CD players are harsh and "digital" sounding but I couldn't hear a hint of that. Sounded pretty good to me.

Michael.

 

That old 104 was a cracker wasnt it? specially for its time, gives a lot of new players some competition. I heard one hooked up to an MF MVT pre and A370 power into mission 770's, sounded bloody amazing, really dynamic.

Another one to look for is the philips 850, oh and the 960, although thats a more pricey player.

And oh how I wish I had kept my jr149's, I wasnt using them and a friend offered me a few quid for em, wish I had said no, theyre value is on the up now. But we do these things dont we.

 

I would amend your title, Michael, to say that that old stuff is bloomin' good! As the proud owner of some 1980s LS3/5As and ditto vintage Quad amplification in No.2 system, I can vouch for that. I had a Sony 501 CD player of slightly later vintage than your dad's (1985) and I confirm that the alleged "harsh digital sound" of these players is total myth. Had it not rolled over and died and Sony (Schweiz) could no longer get the parts to fix it, I'd still have it.

 

Do you know, the more I talk to people, and learn, the more I realise how dirty a game this hifi business is.

There are some really good people, but there are some real profiteers and bad folk who simply rubbish stuff.

Oh, have you heard the mark 2s, it makes the mk1 sound as though its broke.

This speaker cable makes that sound like feeding time at the zoo.

And of course, the new stuff is far better,

Its all bollux marketing crap. Ignore most you see hear and read. and rely on your ears and the music.

I can see right through it now, and I think people here can, too. this is becoming evident. the whole 'selling system' is being found out. The hype ups, no wonder people end up being disappointed if something costs a bomb, and its no better than a 20 yr old £100 thing.

 

I agree Data, but should point out that 1st generation CD players were very expensive items at the time. Anyone recall what they cost??

 

I have a dead cd104 at home, whats the most likely reason for it not working?

It did until a few years ago

 

Hi,


There were Philips/ Marantz ones which cost £450. I think the Sony one was over £600. There was a big price drop at Christmas 1983 bringing the price down to £300 & £450. I think these were the prices, I check when I get in. This was in 1983. I think the cost of an LP12 turntable was around £380 ish.

SCIDB

 

Well at those prices the early CD players should have sounded damn good, if they sounded like a harsh Matsui CD Player nobody would have spent more than an LP12 on one especialy as software was quite hard to get hold of at the time.

 

I had the first B&O, based on the Philips machine, a beautiful top loader that was supposed to sound better than the Philips/Marantz, and the Sony of course, but after the second breakdown I gave up and bought the Sony XA2 ES that sounded much better, in fact it was a great CD player, with remote control + volume, had it connected direct to the power... :MILD:

 

Hi,

Hifi is no different from most industries & Businesses. They are are out to make a profit & survive. We live in a consumer society that needs to sell stuff. I agree that in life, all that is new is not always better. Hifi is no different to, say, the music industry, car industry, clothes industry, retail industry. Big make ups are always found. One way to increase turnover is to bring out new versions of the same thing. It may or may not be better.

Companies will sell stuff at what the market will stand. It's always up to the individual to decide what is very for money. If you don't like the price, buy something else or haggle for a better deal or buy elsewhere.

Hifi is a very small industry but has a section of people who will buy the latest thing. This is no different to people buying a new car every year or people buying the latest fashions. Without this sort of consumerism, a lot of companies will go out of business. Companies do things like expand the range of products or offer upgrades. This can get a bigger market share & get brand loyality.

I do agree that there are loads of older items out there which are better than new stuff. But that's life. It does make it very good to buy older stuff. I have items in my house from yesteryear which will better a lot of new stuff. You do have to bear in mind that when some of these were new, they were quite expensive. But you do have more element of risk with older stuff. All is not lost as some old expensive items (& a number of old cheaper items) were very well designed & built.

Some things will not be cheap due to what's involve in manufacturing, design & development & number of sales. (e.g. High end turntables.) Others could be a lot cheaper (e.g. some cd players).

To decide how badly things are over priced, you do need to know the full price breakdowns & costings occured by the manufacturer or importer. You would need to know how big everyones cut is.

One thing that hasn't helped with Uk pricing of items, is the price of stuff abroad. It is alot easier to buy stuff from overseas, & in a lot of cases, it's a lot cheaper.

You pays your money, you take your choice.

SCIDB

 

Agree 100%.......it's as much about whats fashionable at the current point in time... ref the current resurgance in valve stuff

things do move on agreed, but I do find the people who "pan"
older shuff, often without never even listening to it annoying
`
Dig out some old quad/radford amps of yester year for example ....they can still ruffle a few feathers

along with Earlier Krell ARC M/F to name a few

 

My Philips CD100 is still going (not "strong", but it works. If I use it for a while, the motor starts to make a high-pitched whine, which is why I replaced it in the first place.)
It still sounds good, though there is less detail than my current Audiolab / DAC20 - and a bloody good job too!

 

I've put on E-bay a Creek 4040,nothing to look at,but does this little amp sound good,very charming and musical,no shrillness,just natural and good sounding, that will see of today budget bred,so someones going to get a bargin.

Also I've put some 70s KEF reference 103 on there aswell,very well built and very heavy,and again a great sound,I agree today we tend to be conned,older stuff is very good sounding,and if you know what to look for you can get great kit so cheap.

 

I concur Dean, maybe I am a little naive, maybe that is the mechanism of business to rubbish others for your own gain. I find that morally dubious to say the least, and in many instances is dirty and underhand. Blanket rubbishing and praising your own stuff you sell. I see it everywhere now, all the time. Trouble is, its the marketing 'ethic'
I have very little against constant improvement, but when peddled blatant lies about how much better the next model is, I find it repugnant and repulsive.

But I do feel for people who buy really expensive stuff and find it really is no better than a £80 pioneer a400.

Esp. when endorsed by a hard sell shop and a hifi mag that says it trounces last months best buy. This is my point, the amount of times I have read that, you would think anything 6 months old is unlistenable.

There is a sucker born every minute. Maybe if you can't beat em, join em and rip Joe Public off

 

Sorry Michael - the CD104 is a 1984 model - Philips didn't have front loading until the CD204?? (the full-width front loader with top viewing window) in 1983.

The CD100's transport components, on the other hand, are in the 104, and the Marantz CD54 which is a breathed-on CD104. I had one a few years back and, while not as "fast" as the Rega Planet I used, it was very good indeed. Just a bummer that it wouldn't accept my Little Angels' Too Posh To Mosh CD for that late 87 CD AND music sound!!!!

I have a Technics SL-P2 from 1985 that still works - the transport needs cleaning but it sounds fairly decent - a tiny bit "synthesized" on some female vocals, but not harsh. A steal for FREE!!!

Here it is (in 2002) with some period CDs from 1984-5:

 

I had a 104 but cannot really remember how it sounded but I do remember that it had a favourite track selection thing whereby you could programme your CD and then remove it and then insert it again and it would remember your programmed track selection; i 've not had another CDP that did this. I used it with a 33/303 combo which I still have but do not use. Somethings are undoubtedly better otherwise we would not own the (mostly modern gear) that we have, and we are the ones who care about the sound that we get.

The other thing that I remember is that the 33/303 or was it just the 33 was measured to have no sonic signature at all, it was just like a single piece of wire (no don't go there!) and achieved in the '60s as well.

Dominic

 

I also found this - old stuff is good - thing this weekend. I picked up an AR turntable with an AR/Mission arm and AR p77 cart from a junk shop to see what a difference suspension makes. What a great sounding deck - not as analytical as my RPM6 but much more enjoyable - more PRaTy!. The sound is more involving so I'm now either going to try to get a better sound from the RPM6 (perhaps a change of cartridge away from the Ortofon MC25 to a good MM (upto £150 - suggestions!) - cause I love the look or sell the RPM6 and keep the AR and get it serviced/restored.
Donut

- the man with two decks - (for now)

 

33/303s are wonderful. I've had one since 1980 and I still use it - and it still sounds good. I also have a 44/405-2. At one time, both were connected to a switching box, and I had to look at the switches on the box to see which one was playing.

 

DomT - My Marantz CD-16 has the FTS feature you've described. Seems to be very much a philips thing...

 

My Marantz CD50SE also has FTS.

Michael.