Theta Dac And Transport Advice
- Thread starter ronaldo
- Start date
A mid price combo wouldn't perform anywhere near as well as an £800 studio sourced Benchmark DAC1 into any old £100 transport (cd or DVD), due to it's jitter free transport agnostic design. (I sold a Teac VRDS25 transport, same as Wadia, as it made no odds).
So, the question is what else compares to the benchmark price? Not a lot I don't suppose.
So, the question is what else compares to the benchmark price? Not a lot I don't suppose.
julian2002
Muper Soderator
if you happen to think that jitter is the be all and end all of digital sound quality then i'd agree however i'd be wary of judging a transport / dac combo solely on it's jitter performance. things such as output topology, power supplies, dac chip, component choice, compatibility / synergy with existing kit are all also equally (if not more) important.
at the end of the day - like everything else in hi-fi you need to listen to stuff and then go with what you like.
just my 2p
cheers
julian.
at the end of the day - like everything else in hi-fi you need to listen to stuff and then go with what you like.
just my 2p
cheers
julian.
Indeed, it's an element to consider though. Particuarly if it free's up more of a tight budget when the tranny becomes irrelevant.
The Chord 64 sounds as good, but is 2000.
I also like the Resolution Audio Opus 21 cdp, but that is a smoothed presentation, at 2500 from memory.
The Chord 64 sounds as good, but is 2000.
I also like the Resolution Audio Opus 21 cdp, but that is a smoothed presentation, at 2500 from memory.
The Theta Basic transport cost £1997.00 in 1994, the Pro prime II dac £1500.
So you have a £3500. combo which was compairable to the Wadia 3200 and a few others in its time.
CD replay has not proceeded that far since then. (take a look at HI-Fi worlds views)
The transport used a Philips CDM9-pro mech, it was one of the better available in 1994, and also had plenty of good reviews, the DAC was also one of the better available at that time.
The DAC also has balanced output does it not ?
Anyway the combination was quite superb in its day, you may be able to better the DAC but not for the price it is available for second hand on Ebay in my opinion.
The transport is better made than anything you will get for £600 today, and with DACs in the £6k bracket it still can hold its head up.
I should also point out that Theta was one of the digital replay leaders of its time , and made a lot of effort to reduce jitter and use seperate power supplies for various stages of its kit, so the jitter wont be that bad, and you can always add a Theta TLC at a later date if one becomes available.
The TLC knocks jitter on the head, but it benefits from having better sockets fitted, the standard ones have a common ground which is detrimental to its performance.
So you have a £3500. combo which was compairable to the Wadia 3200 and a few others in its time.
CD replay has not proceeded that far since then. (take a look at HI-Fi worlds views)
The transport used a Philips CDM9-pro mech, it was one of the better available in 1994, and also had plenty of good reviews, the DAC was also one of the better available at that time.
The DAC also has balanced output does it not ?
Anyway the combination was quite superb in its day, you may be able to better the DAC but not for the price it is available for second hand on Ebay in my opinion.
The transport is better made than anything you will get for £600 today, and with DACs in the £6k bracket it still can hold its head up.
I should also point out that Theta was one of the digital replay leaders of its time , and made a lot of effort to reduce jitter and use seperate power supplies for various stages of its kit, so the jitter wont be that bad, and you can always add a Theta TLC at a later date if one becomes available.
The TLC knocks jitter on the head, but it benefits from having better sockets fitted, the standard ones have a common ground which is detrimental to its performance.
Oh and contrary to popular forum belief, CD transports do not all sound the same.
I personaly would doubt the opinion of someone who says otherwise, to not hear a difference and then preach that there is no difference only brings to question the system resolution or listeners hearing acuity.
I personaly would doubt the opinion of someone who says otherwise, to not hear a difference and then preach that there is no difference only brings to question the system resolution or listeners hearing acuity.
And if someone offered me that Theta combo for £400 I would sell the wifes undies on ebay for it :lol:
Transport may all be different, however all the one's I've tested sound the same via a benchmark DAC1.
My system has studio levels of resolution and my hearing is spot on, so your talking utter nonsense.
Ask Andrew.B and others on pinkfish media if your unconvinced. Six of us did the A/B test on the same evening, using ATC active 50 monitors to compare all these tranny's into DAC1: TagMclaren / Meridian / £100 dvd player. Nobody could hear a single difference! Plus we all agreed the chord64 was also identical to DAC1.
You won't find a more accurate or higher resolution system than a fully active PMC or ATC via benchmark!
My system has studio levels of resolution and my hearing is spot on, so your talking utter nonsense.
Ask Andrew.B and others on pinkfish media if your unconvinced. Six of us did the A/B test on the same evening, using ATC active 50 monitors to compare all these tranny's into DAC1: TagMclaren / Meridian / £100 dvd player. Nobody could hear a single difference! Plus we all agreed the chord64 was also identical to DAC1.
You won't find a more accurate or higher resolution system than a fully active PMC or ATC via benchmark!
KUB3 said:
Nice of you to point out I'm talking utter nonsense.
My reading of the Benchmark didnt have it rated as the best available, but superb for the money, and one of the best in the £1k market, with a slightly bright presentation which brings out a lot of detail. Other dealers have a dislike for the Chord.
As for higher resolution ? I take it you used the benchmarks own volume ? Out of interest was it modded in any way, I read on some other thread about it being best to bypass this , apparenly there are some mods available to bring out better performance in the Benchmark.
ATC scm50a (I actualy wouldnt mind a pair of these), which used to retail at £4500 active ( it actualy may have been less originaly), now what £7k ? out of interest where is the most budget spent ? Basicly in the same ballpark as £7k of passive speaker and power amp ? And with good reviews though not quite the most transparent perfect speaker according to these reviews ?
What transport mechanism did the TAG have ?, did you use the same cables ? no pre-amp ? What was the total cost of the pre/amp/speaker set up ?
Sorry but I have had this argument before, and even got letter of the month in HI-Fi World for putting these questions out after I made my own views clear.
Anyway with over a dozen players used as transports from Dual/EAD/Meridian/Philips/Pioneer/Toshiba/Theta/Moon/Technics/Audio note/Teac/Alba varying from £4.5k to £30 and Inc CD/LD/DVD , used Into a few dacs from £500 to £3300 and an old Digital/integrated amp with optic and RCA, with various amps from £300 to £7k and speakers from £200 to £4k I personaly found NOT all transport mechs to sound the same.
As have the reviewers of the Benchmark, The Chord , and variouse other high end dacs.
I do not think it is a case of the PMC and ATC being the most accurate speakers ever, and dacs at £800 or £6k are all going to be as much a personal choice as quality, most people prefer the excelence of one area of an items performance over the other brands offering.
As for studio resolution, I remember reading an article regarding the remastering of Roxy Musics albums into SACD , where the engineer used DAT digital tape to master from.
Personaly I do not claim to have the perfect hearing with the most accurate system, and my opinion of Studio resolution is not one of it being unbeatable, or the last word in quality.
But the transport difference was clear with a £1k system and a £20k system, some were night and day, some subtle with image height, or bass weight, or treble.
This was my personal opinion, and my own view, not what I feel to be utter nonsense though.
Out of interest would using a Tact 2.2 with ATC be more capable than the Benchmark ?
What about a Music First passive with the latest Theta Pro Gen ?
I wouldnt mind the Teac DV-50 with the MF passive into ATC-100, a lot less boxes than I currently use.
Then again though, would probably prefer the PMC BB5-P with Bryston amps to the ATC actives.
What about a Music First passive with the latest Theta Pro Gen ?
I wouldnt mind the Teac DV-50 with the MF passive into ATC-100, a lot less boxes than I currently use.
Then again though, would probably prefer the PMC BB5-P with Bryston amps to the ATC actives.
What It Is I Have A Rotel Rcd-1072
I Have Set Up The Theta Combo
I Am Having Trouble Deciding Which Is Best
The Theta Is In Great Condition Sounds Smoother And Not As Sibilant As The Rotel No Loss Of Detail
So The Question Remains Can A £3,500 94 Combo
Outperform The More Recent Rotel
As A Point Of Intrest I Am Using The Exposure New Classics 23/28 Pre/power Into The Dynaudio Contour 1.1's
Oops Caps Off
I Have Set Up The Theta Combo
I Am Having Trouble Deciding Which Is Best
The Theta Is In Great Condition Sounds Smoother And Not As Sibilant As The Rotel No Loss Of Detail
So The Question Remains Can A £3,500 94 Combo
Outperform The More Recent Rotel
As A Point Of Intrest I Am Using The Exposure New Classics 23/28 Pre/power Into The Dynaudio Contour 1.1's
Oops Caps Off
I have had a Tact 2.2 (modded PSU) and a Django S&B in my system (very very similar to MF passive). The TacT 2.2 was very good being used as DAC and pre-amp but the S&B passive with a good dac outperformed it by a worthwhile margin. The DAC I am using is my modded Behringer DEQ2496, which outperformed a Chord DAC64 very easily. Actually the DAC chips in the DEQ and the TacT are similar anyway so it is probably the output stage, pre-amp and PSU's that made the change. The modded DEQ doesn't even have an output sage it just goes direct into the pre-amp.
I have heard the passive BB5 and the active and passive MB2. I'd go for the active MB2 any day. Active BB5 though.. hmmm..
I have heard the passive BB5 and the active and passive MB2. I'd go for the active MB2 any day. Active BB5 though.. hmmm..
sastusbulbas said:
ronaldo said:
The Theta sounds an absolute bargain at the price you are saying you can get it for, I have not heard the Rotel, though regardless of cost it should be your own personal choice that sways you.(you could always use both)
The amp and speaker combo should be capable of showing you some of the pro's and cons of both players, though I think the Theta may go further if you ever upgrade.
Tenson said:
I have thought about giving the DEQ2496 a go, more to experiment with room EQ, never though of using one as a DAC, what sort of work and cost is required with the upgrading ?
Well I bypassed the output stage and sent it via a simple RC filter to the passive preamp. The output direct from the DAC chips has DC on the line though. The passive pre can handle this but other types wont. In that case I'd stick some high quality caps on the output. They could even be switched in or out for different pre-amps. I am going to modd the PSU for separate regulated lines with high ripple rejection later on but I need to wait for Thorsten to lend a hand!
The cost without using a passive pre-amp for the output stage would not be that high. Maybe £200 in parts.
The cost without using a passive pre-amp for the output stage would not be that high. Maybe £200 in parts.
