Tubes vs Solid State - where to start?

Hi everyone.

I have only ever owned Solid State amps throughout my years of collecting hi-fi. I'm interested in making a foray into valve amplification on the basis that so many people reckon they are the bees knees when it comes to the sort of holographic, "see-through" type of imaging that I am looking to get from my set-up. I realise that there are probably as many duff valve designs out there as there are excellent ones, and I don't want to spend a fortune for very little gain in quality if I can help it - hell, who does?

Where I would like some advice is where in the chain I would be best introducing valves? I have a CDP that contains a single valve in the output stage and I believe it's a great-sounding player without necessarily giving me a "valve-like" sound (whatever that may be). I also have pre- and power amps and I suspect that replacing one of these with a valve-equipped model may give me what I'm after - but which one? Should I go for a valve pre from the likes of ARC or Audio Note, or a beefy tube power? Which one is more likely to influence the overall sound of the system, and hopefully give me the benefits I am seeking?

I'm aware that I should be doing a lot of testing/listening to ascertain the best combination, obviously taking into account my 'speakers too - unfortunately there are very few dealers in my area with tube designs on demo, plus I'm probably going to have to buy second-hand.

So there we go, I throw the floor open for opinions from anyone with a bit of tube experience. Of course, if you believe Solid State is the way to stay, tell me too as I'm easily swayed/convinced by either party....

Cheers

Neil

PS - See my sig for the current system.

 

bugger, posted in wrong thread.

Message deleted.

 

Hi corruption

One logical place to start might be Einstein amplification as the distributor for Totem also does these . However,and this is only by what i have heard not experienced i thought that Totems are a wee bit hard to drive? And would thus require a fairly powerful valve amp .

You have a nice cdp in the 2.2 and if your speakers were a bit easier to drive then consonance also make a big range of valve amps ,why not give Ian Large at Alium audio a ring ,hes a very nice guy and very helpful.

What worries me a bit is that your pre/power is fairly up market so any valve amp would need to be very good too. Matching valve pres and power amps to what you have will present a challenge for you in so much as you will really need to try them together. Mismatching can be more of an issue here than with solid state .

Regards D Louth

 

Im certainly no expert Neil, however I recently had the same thoughts, and tried a few valve pre - amps and some passives (some of the guys on here, were good enough to try some of their amps out-to get an idea). This allowed me to hear the difference before taking the plunge. I found that a valve pre with a good SS power worked beautifully in my system for a good while - I then moved to both valve pre and power, but have kept my SS gear (just in case). Ive found that valve gear can be had, quite reasonably, second hand, and will better much of the SS stuff you could purchase for the same money - though it really is trial and error. i would say however, that many designs do different things and a good valve amp (pre / power) wont sound necessarily flabby , as many people may suggest - they may not have the ultimate "grunt" that SS has, especially at lower pricing. Ive heard many say, that a good valve pre and a decent SS power can make speakers sing. If I were you, Id try a few and see whether you like valve sound first, then do a little digging for brands. I now have a croft pre and power and am very happy indeed - look for croft micro pre and mega pre (this is mine). Glen croft is happy to work on amps to upgrade them, or carry out repairs / service. I recently dropped my power amp in for service and a little tweaking - if youre near Wolverhampton, give me a bell and you can have a listen.

 

Of your stuff, I'd try some power amps in place of the Sugden ampmaster.

Brands will depend on budget I'd say.

For sub £700, try Prima Luna, PureSound.

You could get the following kit amp built for you and shipped for that kind of money (where my money would go , personally) - but you wont be able to hear first.

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm

 

Whilst good value, one thing to bear in mind with stuff from Diyhifi supply, is that if you have any problems with the gear, you'll have to send it all the way back to Hong Kong (not cheap). They have no agents in the uk.

 

There many good valve amps around the Croft route is certainly worth considering also think World Designs and SAC at acoustic perfection The Glowmaster is a stunning power amp and will challenge units costing 4 times its price.
But if you have to get one first I would go for a power amp myself. Just make sure they match your speakers

 

Hi B!

It's a kit amp, so you wouldnt send it to china, you'd get your soldering iron out. Alternatively, you'd pay a valve repair man a few quid...

One of the reasons I like valve amps, they are so simple any decent television repair man can fix them...

 

Hi

Ok, I thought you were talking about their pre-assembled items. Any warranty issues for those are complicated by the fact the company is in Hong Kong. Personally, I wouldn't recommend their assembled products to those not confident in diy.

 

good point: re non-confident in DIY (or someone who has problems getting valve amps fixed).

Anyone of that sort, would not reccomend valve amps at all - they are simply things that get very hot and pop resistors or capacitors from time to time.

Apart from an early Border Patrol amp that blew it's output transformer, I've never had a valve repair come in over £50.

Valve stuff is not as reliable as solid state per se.

With DIY stuff (pre-made or made yourself) you get better componentry normally, and a forum of people who help/tell you about it - a forum/community type thing. With this make (DIY hifisupply) you get some of the best kits out there IMO.

It's a pay-money-make-choice thing, no doubt.

Solid state - I think warranty is more of an issue, and repairs.. at least for me... I know if a product gets ''old'' and the circuit board fries somewhere hard to reach you can be in trouble..

 

Agree with all that

I'd just point out to anyone considering buying any of Diyhifi supply's pre-assembled amps that, in the event of problems with the gear, you'll be regarded by the company as a diyer who can make adjustments inside the amp, even if you tell them that you are a complete novice with electronics. That was my experience after spending a grand on a pre-built phono-stage and it came as a bit of a surprise. The problem wasn't (and still isn't) completely resolved either.

 

Are you ok now mate?

I know loads of valve amp repair people who could put you right for not much if you're anywhere near M/Keynes. Would be glad to help.

You're dead right in what you say - but I guess I am a 'DIYer who can/knows people who can put right' - so kind of (mistakenly) presume others are as me.!

Was yours a diyhifisupply product? - I've enjoyed my diyhifisupply pre-amp for years, and love it to bits. It's the second oldest/longest living bit of kit in my stuff. The other being my EAR 834p.

 

Thanks for your offer of help.

Actually, now it's just a power supply that hums badly and scratched casing, which the American owner in Hong Kong failed to resolve.

I was merely pointing out to any non-diyers who are interested in their ready-mades, to tread with caution. Yes, it was from diyhifi Supply.

 

My take - I like the "valve sound". I'd try to listen to some inexpensive valve kit to get an idea if you like it. If beautiful mid-range is your thing then it's easy to achieve with valve amps. Listen to a WAD kel 84 if you can (around 250/300 tweaked 2nd hand). Unless you're spending lots of cash if fast punchy bass is your thing (as opposed to deep "breathy" bass) then a push-pull amp 6550/kt 88 with decent output transformers will be the thing. IMO ;-)

 

Has anyone here owned or have experience of Rogue Audio or Conrad-Johnson kit (especially tube pre-amps) that they could comment on, positive or negative?

I'm looking at a couple of pre-owned/ex-dem items that have piqued my curiosity further.

Thanks

Neil

 

I have a Rogue Stereo 90 power amp, bur I'm afraid I'm not much of a reviewer except to say that I like it. If you are near Ilford you are welcome to listen.

 

Used to hve a Conrad Johnson PV-10. Very musical, a little soft maybe, but it was a very easy to listen to amp. Power amps were Audio Analogue and later my Audions. Ultimately replaced the CJ with a Music First TVC passive.

Jeff

 

how do you find the music first champ?

 

In a word - transparent. Compared to the CJ there was just so much more of everything. I felt as though it was really letting me hear my system - for better or for worse I also had an Audion pre on dem as well which seemed to add too much euphony to the sound. I just feel music just sounds more real through the MF.

Jeff

 

If you like the consonance cdp ...then why not take a look at there valve amps ......I run the cyber 800 and find them very good ...but the smaller pre power combos that match the cdp are good too..