Turntables & vinyl: just a fashion thing or a sincere appreciation for the sound?

Guys,

Being a turntable owner myself, I have been paying particular attention to this sector of our hobby for just over a year now. For a medium that we were once told was dead, there just seems to be a never ending stream of new turntables and accessories and new vinyl releases being offered by the day, so to speak.

Recent TT additions to the pack have been the NA Horizon, Michell Tecnodec, Avid DIVA, Roksan Radius 5 and even the likes of Musical Fidelity, T+A (of Germany) and Audio Analogue are now bringing out new turntables. This is just the tip of the TT iceberg as I have left out several other European and American entrants into the TT game or new releases or revamps from exisiting TT manufacturers. Michell released the Tecnoarm tonearm last year and SME have now released the M2 tonearm to replace the legendary SME 3009. Phono stages also seem to be crowding the market as I was speaking to a local audio manufacturer the other day who was telling me about the two solid-state and one tube phono stages his company will shortly be releasing into the market place. To top all this, my local dealer had his best six months in the run-up to December 2003 by selling more TTs in the last six months than he'd done in previous years. Most of the sales were to under 35s.

So why is this? Is it just a fashion thing (perhaps fuelled by the DJ culture) or is there some real substance to the sound of turntables & vinyl that many people are now coming to appreciate? I would have thought that with the new formats, SACD & DVD-A on the horizon, that many people would be chasing those formats instead. Yes, I know that turntables & vinyl never went away completely but now, they appear to be back with a vengeance and for good by all accounts. So, any thoughts on why turntables & vinyl have made such a comeback?




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

i'm probably wrong, what with being young (a shade under 19) and not being into 'hifi' for long (always been a fan of music, but the system had to wait until i had a job) but it seems to me that its mainly a nostalgia thing. People went for ages listening to CD's and having all those vinyls tucked away. The DJ thing i think helped it bring it back to the masses, sparking off the nostalgia of the 'oldies'.

To me, i like vinyl because there are so many albums i like only on vinyl, so really to hear them, vinyl is a must (although i only listen once as i back them upto CD).

Just my 20 pence worth

 

For me it never went away.
Always listened to vinyl up until '86 when i got my first CDp when i started earning. Still carried on buying vinyl for quite a while as there was more available.
Never got rid of my TT, infact i have always played vinyl more than CD.
I could go on about i prefer blah blah, but whats it matter? it just my preference

 

More new vinyl was sold last year in the UK than both the new hi-res digital formats. It's still a viable medium, worth a significant amount of money. No doubt dance music has something to do with that, but ISTM that considerable numbers of non-dance albums get vinyl releases nowadays, it's not just a DJ phenomenon.

Factor in people in their 30s and over who've still got record collections they never got rid of, and the growth of the TT market, especially at the budget and mid-price end, becomes almost inevitable. It was only a matter of time before people started to want to play their old records again, rather than buy them all over again on a new format.

Like Penance, I've always had a TT. Never seen any good reason not to, I've always had records, I've always wanted to play them!

-- Ian

 

I suspect the 'DJ culture' got the whole TT market kickstarted again. I too have only fairly recently owned a TT (since Oct 2002), firmly believing when I was younger that CD was the way to go. When I got my first CDP in 1991, vinyl seemed well and truly dead.

Two things attract me to vinyl - the first being the warmer sound that it can bring over CD players - especially at the budget-end of the market, where they can sound a bit too bright for my liking. As a result, I later ended up looking for (and successfuly found) a CDP that offered a warmer, more 'vinyl-like' sound - to my ears, anyway

Secondly, the availability of albums that either never made it to CD or are so horrendously expensive on CD and that I wish to complete 'collections' of artists/bands.

The funny thing is, when I mention to a lot of people (especially younger ones) that I own a TT, they seem to think I'm into DJ-ing. The perception of owning a TT these days seems to be that used be DJ's in nightclubs. In my case, it's just to enjoy albums on vinyl.

 

I only used to have about 20 LPs, so I sold them and only had CD.

Swapped a jacket for a mates vinyl collection in 2001.

3 years later and I have more LPs than CD

higher volumes of TT sales are wonderful news IMHO. Demand creates supply of both the hardware and vinyl . All I want is total availability for my chosen format.

 

I didn't own a CD player until 18 months ago. Just a mini system with a CD in the Bedroom. I have no idea what the big attraction is for these newcomers to the vinyl world but I do know I'm seeing lots of SH vinyl related gear coming up. The mags paint a picture of vinyl that's not strictly accurate..IMHO it's a more easy on the ear sound than CD which is why I stayed with it but lots of people brought up on CD find the noise, pops and clicks etc hard to live with and soon revert to CD.

It is inevitable that with such a huge number of records out there that vinyl will always have a loyal following of music lovers but pricing of new vinyl releases is frankly a pisstake and it's apparent the marketing boys for both hard and software are busy knocking out vinyl related product for a market eager to pick up on vinyls apparent superiority for fashions sake.

So a bit of both perhaps.

Nothing more impressive than a big acrylic 2k TT sitting in the corner of your perfectly decorated ideal homes lounge!!!! Who cares if you only own five records...

 

personally i think it's more of a nostalgia thing. i've done a few cd vs vinyl tests (not blind or abx so their validity is necessarily suspect) and in all of them there were differences but they weren't large and neither to my ears sounded 'better' than the other. if you have a vinyl collection and can source the music you want on vinyl then fine. similarly if you have no vinyl and can get the music you want on cd then also fine. my problem is that i like dance music and have about 10 black pizzas, thus there is music i want to hear, only available on vinyl but splashing the 1k it would take for the equipment to play them would buy an awful lot of other music. cess pit le vie i guess.
cheers


julian

 

Possible reasons;

1.S/H Vinyl in mint condition available for a couple of quid a pop.

2. Techno-boredom by the 40 plus generation with the 'superior' new formats of DVD A and SACD. Seen it all before with VHS/Betamax. Can't be arsed.

3. Decent turntables available S/H for a few quid.

4. The undoubted superiority of the vinyl medium over drinks coasters by even modest turntables.

Bob

 

I feel Bob, has his finger on the pulse on this, cheap used Vinyl readily available, a reasonable TT can be had for a fair price, also I feel most of the older recordings are far superior on vinyl, and just 'arn't done justice on the formats when remastered' other than the odd few exceptions.
I've never owned a TT in my entire life, or will, although last year I did hear one that was rather special, and made me think for while but I have only 5 pieces of vinyl, so a bit pointless to be fair.
Certain TT's have a magical charm, thats superb can't be emulated either, but they aint cheap
For now I'm happy with me red book, but Jools is right on the looks front, but then I would need more tha 5 pieces of vinyl to justify that expenditure, more like a 1000 Wm

 

I suspect it is due to many reasons, all of which seem to be converging at the moment...

When CD arrived on the scene in the early 80s it arrived in the shops at a retail price of 9.99 quid per unit as opposed to about 5-6 for a LP record. So, from a commercial perspective there was more mark up for both the record label and the shop. CD was also smaller so display was easier and cheaper per unit, and it had a better failure rate – LP pressings in the early 80s were at their poorest ever, it was common to have to return a LP several times to get a clean unmarked copy. As a result the major record labels and retailers went all out to deliberately kill vinyl. They very nearly managed…

The dance scene kicking off in the mid to late 80s had a profound effect; most importantly it kept the pressing plants open. This is the only reason vinyl is still with us. As a result many titles were able to be pressed as limited editions, and these appealed to collectors who almost certainly represent a far bigger market share than audiophiles. It kept the foot in the door for the many people, both audiophiles and collectors, who didn't want to jump ship completely to digital.

Audiophiles probably amount to a tiny proportion of music buyers and can largely be forgotten from a commercial perspective from both the perspective of 'proper' (i.e. non audiophile) record labels and music retailers.

Audiophiles are astounding snobs; vinyl has been considered the superior medium in pretty much all of the audio press, so any audiophile needs a turntable, even if it is just a badge of membership to 'serious' audio. Vinyl also has the benefit of having all manner of things the audiophile can fiddle with. They like that. This is certainly sufficient to keep many manufactures producing the crop of gleaming shiny sculptures that have a secondary purpose spinning vinyl currently hitting the market at such an alarming rate. The people I am taking the mick out of here can easily be identified as they have about 200 LPs or less, yet probably have a 1200 quid cartridge.

I also suspect that some serious music buying audiophiles are getting cold feet about investing too heavily in red-book CDs now – it is pretty inevitable that either SACD, DVDA or some future format will gain market share, and that means that most of their collection will be Frisbees in a few years. If you buy vinyl it simply won't become obsolete in the same way. Now is the time to duck out of digital and let the dust settle on the future medium - how many digital remasters of Kind of blue does a person need – I'll stick to the record thanks!

For people like myself who are first and foremost buyers and collectors of music it is a great thing that vinyl is strong. There are lots of limited editions around that will keep or gain on their new price, the second hand market is really buoyant (though it is far harder to find real bargains than ten years ago). eBay has also given everyone a true international buying and selling capability; this is an crucial change for the better in second hand vinyl retail. Things are pretty damn good for the serious record collector at the moment.

Tony.

 

20 years ago 200 lps got put in the loft when man gets married and wife wants a "stack" with lots of flashing lights

20 years later,man finds lps,buys a Hi-Fi mag and buys a TT and finally dumps the stack

man amazed at how good Saxon actually were,and even faints when he puts Dark Side Of The Moon on

everyone else does it

the mags say there is a renaissance




its just mass hypnotic hysteria brought on my mass mid life crisis from the sons of seventies rock

but that opinion might not stand up to more detailed scrutiny,but it might actually be accurate

 

Speaking as a lover of both formats, I have a good turntable (LP12/Ekos/Klyde) because I have a much-loved vinyl collection, which I started in the 1970s (my oldest was indeed bought in 1970, Karajan's recordings of Strauss waltzes, so impressed was I by this version in Kubrick's "2001"!). Many of these will never become available in CD, so I need a decent turntable to play them well and preserve them hopefully for many more years.

I prefer CD, because I cannot hear the alleged superiority of vinyl and it's so much more convenient for use and for storage (my LPs take up a lot of storage space). I will not buy any more vinyl, unless it's a rarity that I particularly want and that has never come to CD.

 

Heard from a guy who should know that Sony are not releasing the rights to certain albums for rerelease on vinyl because they see vinyl as THE competitor for SACD ... the world is a strange place.

Cheers

Jason

 

My own feeling on this is that CD will not be killed off by new formats simply because having heard SACD it just doesn't sound better to me than CD. Hardly surprising I suppose since the potential sound quality of either a CD or vinyl album is hardly ever realised anyway.

My own feeling is that a good CD beats a bad vinyl recording, but an excellent vinyl recording, well cut and pressed beats, anything CD can do at it's best. Thing is, we live in the real world and I buy music beacause I like it not for the recording quality so I am perfectly happy to use both formats. I do feel that two sources is enough and would have no interest at all in adding a third. I bet there are a lot of people who feel the same way.

 

I presume you are referring to popular stuff, Tony, because some of the best (classical) vinyl I have comes from this very era. This was the time that Telefunken introduced the direct metal mastering technique, which was licensed by some of the other classical manufacturers.

Another factor is the number of LPs produced from a stamper. I read that Telefunken, rated as the best producer of LPs, would stamp only 100 LPs from a stamper. The maximum for any classical label (classical listeners were seen as being more fussy) was 400 per stamper. For pop stuff, they stamped until the ridges were virtually worn away, so, if you got something at the end of a run, you had rubbish (perhaps in more ways than one )

 

Dear All,

All interesting stuff. The point about DJ culture was well made. Whilst I don't think its true that the current revival is being fuelled by DJdom, the revival (at least in terms of new releases) wouldn't be possible if dance and DJs hadn't provided demand for the black stuff through the nineties. The pressing plants would have closed.

I can't comment on why other people use, buy or prefer vinyl - I can only comment on myself. Its simple really - I love music and I suspect because I'm a bit old fashioned, I like records - I guess you'ld say I'm a collector with an audiophile bent. CDs just don't seem worth the collecting.

Also even in the dark days I refused to succumb to the industry scam which tried to persuade us to buy all our old stuff again badly remastered on CD (so SACD and DVD-A are ALL about superior sound quality eh? - Cock). MY records rarely crack or pop, cos I've always looked after em and most second hand stuff comes up fine after a good scrubbing.

I'm not sure I buy the "vinyl is totally superior to CD" flannel, but accept there may be something in it, especially for older stuff which just don't seem or sound right on CD to me - can't put my finger on it. Vinyl has its problems though - the variation in pressing quality can be utterly maddening. CD is pretty consistent - important to a lot of people. Vinyl isn't - when its at its best its sublime, when its not it can be downright awful

PS. Some people in the hifi press talk a lot of cock from what I can tell. See HFC raving this month about a Nordost power lead coming in at an astounding £1750 - yes for what is basically a kettle lead - which transformed their system - ha Not vinyl related I know, but any journos which can endorse this kind of lunacy have to questioned on there pronouncements

PPS. You can't roll doobies on a CD case :MILD:

 

Some great info there – we need to start a thread somewhere so we can talk about classical pressings; it's something I'm on a learning curve with at the moment as I'm trying to build up my knowledge so I can buy, sell and collect more effectively. My impression so far was that late 50s and early 60s was where it's at quality wise, i.e. wide-band SXLs, LXTs, unboxed ASDs, SAXs, 33CX and matt tulip label DGs etc – this is certainly the stuff I try to buy to either keep or resell. I've never tried any Telefunken pressings, but I know where a couple are so will take a punt out of curiosity. I've just ordered the Rare Classical Record Price Guide so intend to be better informed in the future.

That is absolutely astounding – did Telefunken LPs cost more to buy?

Tony.

 

Most of the arguments put forward here for the resurgence of vinyl make sense, and I suspect that each is at least partly responsible. But there's another possibility I'd like to offer. It's the tactile qualities of vinyl. From the scope and scale of the sleeve artwork to the substantial mass of the average 12-incher (oo-er), vinyl records are simply hugely attractive objects to handle, to use and to own. Their physicality is massively reassuring and increasingly significant in an age when entire music collections are disappearing into little silver boxes the size of cigarette packs.

Buying vinyl feels like more an event, too. The other day I picked up a new copy of Ornette Coleman's Change of the Century on vinyl for £8 at Selectadisc in Berwick Street. Hardly a bank buster, but it felt much more of a momentous purchase than a CD, which would normally get stuffed in a pocket or other bag. The LP required its own special carrier, and simply refused to be discreet or easily amalgamated with my other baggage. Getting it home, pulling it out of the carrier, reading the sleeve notes, slipping the vinyl from the inner liner, carefully placing it on the turntable –_it's like a minor version of the Japanese tea ceremony. Oh, and it sounded just fantastic, too.

In this sense, perhaps vinyl's new-found popularity is a reaction against the increasing disposability of much of the form and content of modern music. Just a theory. Now, if only I could find a dealer in London willing to service and set-up my ageing but beloved Systemdek…

 

Tony,

I'm thinking back 20 years now, but my memory is that they didn't, or if they did, so little as to make no difference. (I think it was the case of the pop/rock buyers sponsoring we classical types - bless you, one and all!) Certainly they weren't in the price bracket of the then audiophile pressings from Telarc and Delos (great recordings but often very ordinary artists and interpretations). Mind you, I recall Telarc's "1812 Overture" as being regarded as the ultimate torture test for arms and cartridges - they used real cannon and the groove modulation was extreme.