Ultra-pure, micron-sized silver flake suspended in a carefully- selected organic...

The six moons review says it increases the apparent loudness by 1.5 to 2dB! He ain't talking about extremely subtle "did I hear it or did I just think I heard it?" tweako differences... Surely something like that could be EASILY corroborated in a reliable, scientific fashion? Certainly sounds interesting, and not too expensive either.

I can't afford to buy the stuff m'self but I could possibly donate (temporarily, of course) an SPL meter to someone willing to try it... A measurable increase in SPL would certainly indicate something BIG going on (though whether it was actually an improvement is another matter...)

Dunc

P.S. - The techno/psycho-babble description on the Walker site is among the worst I've ever seen - real textbook, vomit-inducing stuff. That said, it's not entirely surprising - very few tweak-heads seem to have the slightest clue what they're doing! I wouldn't be surprised if they just stumbled upon it, haven't the slightest clue why it works, but want to at least appear like they designed it intentionally...
 
Hallo everybody
I suppose you know that I keep contacts with Lloyd since last year when I could have his phono preamplifier for several months at my place for test. During that occasion I also had the possibility to test the Valid Points (actually the first time just when Ian, Graham and Lee were at my place). Since I was convinced about the Valid points I bought enough to use them for all my components. Very much exagerated from Titian but that's me.:rolleyes:
Only now, actually last night, I started to do detailed tests on each component to see where they work the best and where not. Lloyd is known as one as the best specialist in the USA for controlling microfonics, vibrations and resonances. He is very accurate and very 'fanatic' about each minimum approvement of sound possible. He says: 'lots of very small improvement make a big improvement'. His phono stages and mostly TT are certainly one of he bests you can get and are mainly based on the elimination of these external influences. So it is not for the majority of the people.
Every time I read someone who is looking for cones, speaker spikes, absorbers and so on, I feel like writing about these Valid Points but at the end I don't because of 2 reasons:
- what applies to me doesn't necessaraly applies to someone else
- the costs

Lloyd also sent me for testing the SST (super silver treatment) and the Vivid CD/DVD Enhancer. I have them here since a few months (as I had also the Valid points before usiong them for the first time) and never used them not only because I am quite sceptic about them but also because I want to settle my actual system, hear a lot of music before I go into further voodoo / improvement. So I am sorry I can't say much about the SST but I must say that Lloyd has already surprised me (in the positive side) a couple of times. And it seems he is absolutely convinced in these products otherwise he wouldn't have sent me them free. Mile Nestorovic said to me about a month ago that there is another broke who also making cables which is concentrating his 'researches' in the field of different contacts. He seems to use a fluid, I believe, and Mile said that the results are very good.
I have the impression that there is though a difference in what I like as music and what Lloyd does. While I like a very good body of the music it seems that his stuff lacks a bit in this range. I never heard his system so I cannot say if this is true. On my system his equipment gave me absolutely far the BEST high ends (details, airy..) and a good mid range, but as said lacking on body. I feels it is mostly the settings of the TT, arm, cartridge and resonances problems but I have another opinion.
This difference is also a reason why I haven't yet tried his SST although I have it here for free.

I hope I am not giving the impression that I believe everything they tell me. I try to keep subjectively focus on my goals, doing personal tests and without getting too much influenced. I just hope I succeed in that. It is always difficult to report on certain stuff because a lot of people might think you are nutty.



.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by titian
I feels it is mostly the settings of the TT, arm, cartridge and resonances problems but I have another opinion.
This difference is also a reason why I haven't yet tried his SST although I have it here for free.
Click to expand...
The last thing most people need to worry about is people finding them nutty. Personally, I don't give a damn and that's one of the most liberating aspects of my entire life.

I didn't quite understand what you have written above. Could you clarify?

Thanks.
PS: Actually, I didn't know that you were in contact with Lloyd.
 
Steve,

concerning nutty
I didn't mean that I am worry about that people could find me nutty in my normal life. But when writing in a forum with many people who never met you, lots of pregiudices are made. What sense would there be when writing reports in a forum where nobody would ever read or just lough at you because they think you are a nutty? There are enough pregiudices alone when you have a system which is out of range for over 99% of the members, don't need more!

Response to your question
I believe there is a difference in the perception of music between Lloyd and me: I believe he is used to hear music with fantastic highs while he doesn't seems to be bothered much about the lack of body. This is only my personal impression after hearing some of his stuff at my place. I don't know if this is because I had a wrong setting (as Lloyd thought).
Now this difference in the perception of music is another reason why I didn't want to try out his SST. In other words: I am afraid that using the SST, I might loose some body or that maybe the highs become too harshy.
Damn me: try it!:D
 
titian -

If you have a pot of this stuff...

Dont you have any old/unused interconnects lying around?

I bet you do!!...

If not, you could make one for about five pounds...

Just wondered if we could persuade you to try this stuff on an interconnect which you werent going to keep, perhaps into an RCA socket that you dont ordinarily use..

that way nothing lost?


If not, how about sending it to an inquisitive ZG'er - like with the Densen DeMagic thing...?

Just some ideas :)

Chris
 
Ok I will try it on one of my Fadel cable and on a 'normal' cable.
This evening I will also contact Lloyd for more instructions (where to use it first and so on..)
I will also contact Mile to ask him what he thinks about using SST on the tubes contacts.

Chris I have the awful habit not to say NO. :)
 
The other thing that occurred to me with this SST stuff is that users are supposed to clean their contacts before they apply it. This cleaning would also make a difference.

For myself, my power amps (home made by an enthusiast in the US) have quite wonky valve connections. I would consider trying the stuff on the 'probably would do more good than harm basis'.
 
I think its audiphilia gone mad, it shows how perfectionist and anorakish you can get. I mean, what are you going to do, paint every connector, pcb, component, mains lead, plug, house wiring, even demand the leccy wires from the power station are silver.

The hard wiring things gets me, too...WRT yes its preferable, as its far easier to swap caps and things, but to say its better than a pcb, they both use copper 'tracks'/wires, and I have heard pcb things at least as good, if not better, which says the conclusion is inconclusive!

And the cash we spend OMG, £100s on a meter of cable...I have to say, if you take a step back, it is a bit geekish, the average guy would baulk and think we were mad. Maybe we are. Its only a bit of music!!!!
 
Originally posted by Lt Cdr Data
I think its audiphilia gone mad, it shows how perfectionist and anorakish you can get. I mean, what are you going to do, paint every connector, pcb, component, mains lead, plug, house wiring, even demand the leccy wires from the power station are silver.
Click to expand...
Yes, audiphilia has gone mad but a very long time ago.

Originally posted by Lt Cdr Data
And the cash we spend OMG, £100s on a meter of cable...I have to say, if you take a step back, it is a bit geekish, the average guy would baulk and think we were mad. Maybe we are. Its only a bit of music!!!!
Click to expand...
£100 on a meter? That would be a cheap cable! Audiphilia could spend also 500-700£. :o The average guy does think I am mad, very very mad but nobody, not even the average guy, who came to hear my system thought I was mad after hearing it.:rolleyes:
And strange thing that the wifes were mostly impressed about it, those who wouldn't even sped 200£ for a complete system. :rolleyes:
Its not only a bit of music!!! Music seems not to be only music.
 
Chris,
as you asked for in your latest posting I did a test.
First I sent my family out for the afternoon, then it took me about half an hour to find the SST. Then I read the instructions.
In the introduction I read:
SST will dramatically improve the sound and/or video of any system._ The highs will be more extended, cleaner, clearer and better focused. The mid-range will be more transparent with more articulation and detail, yet without harshness or glare. The bass will be stronger, tighter, and quicker. The soundstage will take on a more natural presence. With video systems, the sound improvement will be matched by the improvements to the video. Look for a cleaner, more three-dimensional picture._ :rolleyes:
Then I had to choose the CDs for the test.
My first choice, the Halleluja was not around. I don't know where it went but I couldn't find it. Well then substituted it with:

'Vedi! le fosche notturne' from the opera 'Il Trovatore' of Verdi. This is a very complex piece of music which can show lots of limits in a system.
The second piece I chosen was the Toccata (Dorisch) BWV 538 of Bach for organ played buy MC Alain (latest recording). This is a very good piece for the low ends.
The third was the Trumpet concert of Stölzel played by Andre (1983). Not such a good recording which will sound very badly as soon as a system doesn't reproduce everything absolutely clearly.

These pieces I heard at very high level, even higher than in a concert hall.
My impression before using the SST was: they sound super, fantastic no need to improve:rolleyes: Very good bass, strong, tight, quick.
About the cleaness I had doubts with the trumpet concert but I thought it was the recording the rest was great.

So then I used the SST on the two power cables of the CD transporter and DAC (they have both a seperate power unit). I listened to the music again and I believe there were more extended low ends and especially the trumpet concert was cleaner. I didn't do any blind test (how could I) so you just have to believe what I believe. :D What I am sure is that I would put my hand on fire to confirm the difference. If there was one it wasn't so huge. But anyway especially the trumpet concert was 'better'.
So now i put the SST also on the IC (between DAC and Preamplifier) and since I had to make the big effort to turn the unit (remember the valid points under it and the other cables around in that very tight place), I also put it on the output connections to the power amplifiers.
Then I listened again to the test music and I had the feeling that the volume has increased. Yes the trumpet concert was too loud but nevertheless sounded clearer (that means disturbed me less). I heard for example the cembalo better. I heard more extended low ends especially on the Toccata.
Now again I want to say that this was not a blind test so take my words as you feel like.
I will tonight put the SST on the rest of my system connections except for the tube amplifiers. I am very pleased that at least this stuff doesn't make the sound worse and didn't change the timbre of the sound of my system as I was afraid of. I am pleased with this product but I would like to wait till tomorrow. I will see if I could convince Lloyd to send me a bit of it to send to the forum members who would like to try it.
Anybody interested in trying it?

cheers

titian
 
Hi Titian - well done for being brave enough to give it a go on your hifi.

Never fear, if it doesnt sound like an improvement to you in the long run, Im sure it will come off with a good clean!

:)

So is the summary of the first round of listening '' a little clearer, a little louder, but not a significant difference?''

Getting a tub of it from the man sounds like a good plan to me too.

If he wants to chuck a reference phono stage my way, I wont mind that either! :D
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
So is the summary of the first round of listening '' a little clearer, a little louder, but not a significant difference?''
Click to expand...
You forgot more extended low ends. :D On my system I can't immagine to hear a 'big improvement' or a 'major upgrade'. :rolleyes: I haven't used it everywhere...
Today afternoon I will try it on the amps. Let you know.
Maybe also on my second system which is attached to the TV:
McIntosh MCD7007 (CD player)
McIntosh MR 78 (Tuner)
McIntosh C32 (preamplifier)
McIntosh MC7270 (power ampl)
Nestorovic Type 5AS (Loudspeakers)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by titian
Maybe also on my second system which is attached to the TV:
McIntosh MCD7007 (CD player)
McIntosh MR 78 (Tuner)
McIntosh C32 (preamplifier)
McIntosh MC7270 (power ampl)
Nestorovic Type 5AS (Loudspeakers)
Click to expand...
Crikey. That's quite a "second" system :eek:
 
Just a thought, RE valve pins. I have succesfully used alloy car wheel cleaner to clean valve pins. The stuff you brush on, wait 5 or 10 minutes and wash off. I think its called wonder wheels. A mild acid solution that works well on the pins. (got the idea from the WAD forum).
Might be an idea to do that before applying any of the wonder silver stuff to the pins.

I may be tempted to try this myself in the future.
 
This afternoon I put the SST stuff on the rest of the connections of my main system.
And again it gained a couple of DBs, the low ends became tighter and somewhat clearer. The soprano choir sounds better and I must say that even if the changes aren't so drastic for me it was worth to try that stuff. At least up to now: tomorrow I will hear the same CDs again and see if the sound changes back (worse). For me it is quite easy to find out because those sopranos in the choir disturbed me quite a lot. I thought it was the recording.:rolleyes:
The low end of the Toccata were even more impressive than without the SST.
Again a relative small change but for me good enough.
I was wondering if the low ends sounded better because of the gain of db.
I turned the volume slightly back and they were nevertheless still impressive.

So I would like to know now, either than Tone, Steve, Chris and (maybe later) penance, who else is interested in trying this stuff?

PS: of couse only for your system connectors and not for other stuff like finger nails.
 
Originally posted by titian
So I would like to know now, either than Tone, Steve, Chris and (maybe later) penance, who else is interested in trying this stuff?
Click to expand...
Hey, don't all shout at once you intrepid explorers, you. :rolleyes:
 
Yes I'd like to try some up market lobster jizz ;) sorry haven't replied sooner guys, had some system interface initialisation procedures to attend to, Glad to report it was all total horse plops and a crock a whooey, but hey, made this organic suspension can do something after all, my mind is open, yet the brain is long since departed, set coarse for the planet smooth dac 64's number 1
 

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