Understanding words

[wadia-miester]

Following on from the Show thread, I think it's time we did a definitve 'Sounds Discription' Dictionary, that when finished we can put up as a stick
Not flat or round, just a concenus on what 'Articulate' or 'Fast' means, my version of fast, sure isn't close to any one else's, and GrahamN version of scale is so vast than, even Julian and I wouldn't cover it
So how about you guys give your Version of the Following please and then we'll (or rather MikeB will!!!)

Clean

Smooth

Articulate

Attack

Dynamic

Fast

Involving

Enticing

Openiness

Stage

Depth

Image

Music

Hifi

Life

Cohesive

Timing

Fluildity

Communicative

Detail

Expressive

Slam

Scale

This isn't a writing competition either, just put what YOU feel or how you would personaly describe it, then we can formulate a covering dicribtion based on the answers, that hopefully will, help us all understand what each other is actualy trying to communicate

 

[Alex S]

Fluildity - an abreviation, much used in the porn industry, of Full Nudity - sadly lacking at this year's show - even the Neats were wearing black stockings.

Openiness - see above, but this only applies to men.

Can't help with any of the others I'm afraid.

Alex

 

[merlin]

I give up Tony, what's the answer

Is it like, if you use the letter before the second one in the alphabet of alternate words in the list, then it spells "bollocks "backwards

Never thought you were a fan of word games though

 

[bottleneck]

I think the problem might be..as you say, that different people can use the same word, and even the same definitions of the same words, and still mean something very different!..

like for example ''full range'' might be said to be a speaker that covers the whole useable frequency range...

but are people talking about a mid priced 2 way floorstander, a 3-way floorstander, or a B&W nautilus as a reference? Ive even seen standmounts being refered to as full range...

I think the difficulty is in peoples perception of the definition, as much as the word used itself..

Good idea though - IMHO MOST of GH arguements seem to stem from peoples perception of terms being different.

Here's my go. I'll keep em short.!

Clean
no audible distortion. Some people use this as a description of the analytical IMO

Smooth
A little added colour, perhaps not a sterile sound.

Articulate
detailed, finely etched. sometimes overly detailed.

Attack
A poor substitute for the word 'dynamic'

Dynamic
The ability to react quickly to changes in level. Very sensitive speakers seem to display this virtue very well (or less sensitive speakers with 100's of watts)

Fast
I dont personally associate this one with audio.

Involving
See smooth

Enticing
See smooth

Openiness
A wide soundstage.

Stage
see above.

Depth
Front to back depth. kind of 90% to soundstage.

Image
delineation amongst the sounstage. IMO if it images very well, it could be considered analytical.

Music
Stuff on my black pizzas and silver beer coasters.

Hifi
a hifi sound is .. analytical again I suppose.

Life
See smooth

Cohesive
Not a word Id personally use.

Timing
Not much bass, so notes appear to have little decay.

Fluildity
see smooth

Communicative
see smooth

Detail
detailed sound can be analytical or just additional detail.

Expressive
see smooth

Slam
see dynamic

Scale
full range.


Dont know if that helps with the definitions any?
Chris

 

[wadia-miester]

Merlin/Alex, Bottle neck's got the idea, it's not a piss take, just thought we could gauge what every ones perception of the words are, this would help in when some one is giving a review, don't slam a post if you don't agree, just write your interpretation of the word under neath, easy really I hope

 

[cookiemonster]

Clean - no distortion, good definition - clear, precise. Particularly treble

Smooth - not harsh. Pleasent. But not too smooth - otherwise lacks life. Not jazz either...

Articulate - dunno?

Attack - each musical change of course is dealt a solid, articulate blow, and does not melt into a bland soundscape.

Dynamic - quiet - then LOUD. micro and macro. Necessary for involvement. Like a rollercoaster with straight lines on a profile shot.

Fast - erm, just plain rapid. links to 'timing'. Gets those grooves out in quick succession, and not muddled either, mind.

Involving - yes please - dynamic/fast/scale. I want to play another track please...

Enticing - erm....see above

Openiness - 'space'? - around individual instruments and vocals - NOT playing in a cardboard box.

Stage - wide and high please, and not just from one point in between the speakers

Depth - guitarist in next doors garden

Image - locality of individual sounds in 2D (3D?) or just a diffuse wall of indistinguishable sounds.

Music - played on a hifi. (i know what you mean by it if that helps - groovy and boogie, slightly impressive, but not La Scala?).

Hifi - plays music (i know what you mean by it if that helps - impressive but yawn?)

Life - see involving

Cohesive - not bassy - not too much treble - overall tonality. Hangs together like a nice pair of corduroys.

Timing - not slow. On the button. Foot tapping. Doesn't drag.

Fluildity - erm...?

Communicative - see involving

Detail - was that a bus driving past the recording studio? Not too concerned. Also affecting 'texture'

Expressive - see involving

Slam - feel as well as hear those vibes. Big mamma bass lines. Tight and forceful - ala dynamic. Emerging from the soundscape and wrestling with your insides.

Scale - the bigger the better - lots of sound, and all over the wall and beyond.

Sorry, i feel as though i have just served up a thesaurous. Sorry, i obviously have now just illustrated to everyone that i haven't got a fokking clue what i'm on about.......

Nice post WM sir

 

[merlin]

No Tony, I understand fully, just think it's a piss take.

If people choose to use words when they don't understand the meaning, that's just foolhardy.

I'd suggest checking the glossary of terms at the back of HiFi Choice, and sticking to accepted terminology in future.

Or of course you could simply cop out with terms like musical, groove, and involving, as the majority of journalists appear to be doing.

A brief precis of Chris's list would read... Smooth = Good. Detailed = Bad.

Maybe someone could buy that man some ear socks

 

[PBirkett]

Ok heres my attempt

Clean
Uncoloured, neutral, often clinical.

Smooth
Without grain, no obvious roughness.

Articulate
Serves up plenty of detail

Attack
How things like drums attack, hard or soft.

Dynamic
The dynamic peak being the loud crescendo's of music.

Fast
How "fast" a system sounds. I've heard systems that make dance music sound fast, and some that make it sound slow. I liken fast to good PRAT.

Involving
Not entirely sure, but maybe a sound that keeps ones attention, so as not to be bored.

Enticing
Sweet sounding perhaps?

Openiness
The clarity of the sound, the more clear sounding the more open.

Stage
The imaginery "stage" area in front of the listener.

Depth
When used in soundstage means "to go far back". When used in bass, means good (low) extension.

Image
How clearly the various sounds (such as vocals) can be placed in the imaginery "stage"

Music
Thats what ya listen to innit.

Hifi
High fidelity - realism, lifelike sound. Can also be misused to mean "boring", like a collection of sounds.

Life
How exciting a system sounds. The more lively, then generally often the more coloured. Often lots of bass and treble.

Cohesive
For me, this is whether something sounds like its playing together, or just like a collection of individual sounds with no real meaning.

Timing
Timing means that notes / sounds play exactly when they should with no delay.

Fluildity
Whether the music just flows. In some ways, this could also be called cohesive. Also, systems with good bass drive tend to exhibit fluidity.

Communicative
Same as involving for me.

Detail
The amount of sound that is reproduced, in particular subtle, low level sounds. A detailed system can reproduce it all. Can be a double edged sword though IMO (overly analytical).

Expressive
Same as communicative/involving.

Slam
The volume / drama at which bass notes "hit". Systems with plenty of slam tend to be good at dance and rock music, but often condemned as "unsubtle".

Scale
How "big" something sounds. This can be down to roomsize, speakersize and other variables.

 

[cookiemonster]

I'd suggest checking the glossary of terms at the back of HiFi Choice, and sticking to accepted terminology in future.

Or of course you could simply cop out with terms like musical, groove, and involving, as the majority of journalists appear to be doing

Oh, sir, but do we have to......we did science last lesson.....

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by merlin
No Tony, I understand fully, just think it's a piss take.

If people choose to use words when they don't understand the meaning, that's just foolhardy.

I'd suggest checking the glossary of terms at the back of HiFi Choice, and sticking to accepted terminology in future.

Or of course you could simply cop out with terms like musical, groove, and involving, as the majority of journalists appear to be doing.

A brief precis of Chris's list would read... Smooth = Good. Detailed = Bad.

Maybe someone could buy that man some ear socks

Ah yes, but that was my point!... our own version of the definition is affected by our listening preference.

Mine is for colour, life and vibrancy over detail articulation and accuracy.

Others may prefer another path, but Im happy in the knowledge of knowing what I like, and accepting that all paths encompass compromise.

Chris

 

[merlin]

But Chris, that was my point to be fair, and the reason my rather tongue in cheek response!


You say you like colour, life and vibrancy, but these are direct results of resolution which infers detail retrieval by default.

Have a look in the back of HiFi Choice. The Audio world has developed it's own dictionary over a period of time for a very good reason - to avoid the confusion that WM is referring to.

This probably stems from a conversation I had with Timpy yesterday, when I was using the term resolution in it's literal sense. Timpy's take on the word's meaning was totally different, causing confusion.

If we were to all read from the same hymnbook, maybe things would be simpler.

 

[osama]

I believe lilolee once linked in HFC a page in stereophile mag
that defines hi-fi terms from a-z. It was a lenghty one.
That maybe is the best reference we can all have.

regards

 

[LiloLee]

The problem that has already become apparent is that you are defining something by using word(s) which them selves need defining.

Just to pick up on the word 'colour' what does this mean when used to define another word. Also one persons neutral is anothers bland.

The thread on the Heathrow show indicates how we perceive the music differently, and also how we are also prejudice against certain things/styles/makes without giving it/them a fair go.

If you do need a glossary Stereophile does one on-line here http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?50

 

[The Devil]

If you are still hung up on this kind of thing...

 

[LiloLee]

Musicality
This word is widely used in hifi forums and magazines. It is a property of certain hifi components but not others. What does it mean?

It seems to me that the music is the recording and if it can be reproduced convincingly, i.e. accurately, then it will sound, er, musical, assuming that the original recording was -ah- musical in the first place. Is that it?

The opposite of 'musicality' is what? Unmusicality? Colouration?

The term 'analytical' is also in widespread use. What does this mean?

bub

You obviously are to have posted the above on the Mana forum :SLEEP:

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by merlin



You say you like colour, life and vibrancy, but these are direct results of resolution which infers detail retrieval by default.



If we were to all read from the same hymnbook, maybe things would be simpler.

Are they though?

Id say that they relate to dynamics and providing the sound of the instrument with a natural and life-like tone.

Our different takes on even simple words like colour life and vibrancy come from a difference in the type of presentation we prefer.

I agree about singing from the same hymnbook - but no matter how small you break the dictionary down the references to the actual words will be based on our own preferences for sound.

Like Lee said, one mans neutral is another mans bland.

or like julian.... you say potato, I say potarto.
or WM ... here we go round the mulberry bush!



Chris

NB
Have you got the sub system up at 100% yet? I'd love to sneak a listen in sometime if thats poss?

NNB
Maybe someone (whos got more time than mee) would like to scan and cut and paste one of the agreed dictionaries into a sticky thread? Just an idea.

 

[merlin]

musical, musicality A personal judgment as to the degree to which reproduced sound resembles live music. Real musical sound is both accurate and euphonic, consonant and dissonant.

Now I like that. So maybe any use of the word musical should be preceded by " I found it" as opposed to stating that a product has that quality.

It is painfully obvious from the sadly deceased Heathrow thread, that people's ideas of musicality differ wildly. Hell maybe even the dCS kit in the OA room was musical to some. So what do you personally find musical

 

[Paul Ranson]

If you can associate those words with the sound of a system, then it's not hifi. The exception of course is 'music'....

'I see a red door...'

Paul

 

[cookiemonster]

The problem that has already become apparent is that you are defining something by using word(s) which them selves need defining.

Also one persons neutral is anothers bland

.....And with one fell swoop, everything is annihilated.:MILD:

 

[michaelab]

Originally posted by merlin
It is painfully obvious from the sadly deceased Heathrow thread

It wasn't deceased, just temporarily AWOL. I "recovered" it as soon as I saw the error.

Michael.